The Official Victoria's Secret Thread

[CandleVixen]

3 minutes ago, toodarnhot said:

She’s still not plus. 

I’m not arguing that she is or isn’t plus sized. 

[toodarnhot]

Then you’ve lost me in the discussion of me mentioning Lorena’s possibility of being the first plus Angel by bringing up Barbara. 

[CandleVixen]

29 minutes ago, toodarnhot said:

Then you’ve lost me in the discussion of me mentioning Lorena’s possibility of being the first plus Angel by bringing up Barbara. 

 

Ok. I did not intend to confuse you. I’ll DM you.

[GlitterAndWings]

From Weibo.

I wonder how old this shoot is?

[toodarnhot]

11 minutes ago, GlitterAndWings said:

From Weibo.

I wonder how old this shoot is?

Probably from when they originally launched those products in 2015/2016? I honestly thought that particular body care line has been discontinued. 

[ticktock]

18 hours ago, Andrew Van Der Hypp said:

Random...but, Lindsay Ellingson looks freaking AMAZING!  

 

She was never a fave Angel of mine but my god, she has such a naturally beautiful face that lights up a room and is just so contagious. I love how naturally bubbly and kind she seems Despite how underrated she is, I truly think she think she should’ve been more used by VS.

 

I love her!! I've been using her beauty products and I love what I've tried so far. 

[Prettyphile]

2 hours ago, toodarnhot said:

She’s still not plus. 

Fashion industry begs to differ. When the designers, photographers, agencies, and management are calling a size 8 plus, theirs is the only opinions that matter. Sure we may not like it, but our opinions are totally irrelevant.  So for all intents and purposes, Barbara is plus sized by the people who hold the purse strings.

 

In the fashion industry, "plus size" is a term for models who are size 8 and up. But in the real world, most people would never think of a size 8 as plus size — most plus-size clothing doesn't even start until a size 16.

Spoiler

"In a world where you're telling women that plus-size is sizes 4 and up, you're causing body image issues. You're causing unrealistic expectations that every one -- every woman -- should be a size 4. To bring that into the plus-size community, where you're using sizes 8, 10 and 12, when sometimes the stores don't even start carrying the clothes until size 14, you're telling women, 'You want to look like these models. This is what you should look like, but it's never going to happen.'

 

In fact, not so long ago plus-size models were around size 10-12, but that number has recently shrunk to an 8. According to Anthony Higgins, the director at MSA Models, "[catalogs] will use a size 8 because they think size 14 and 16 will relate to that person and size 4 and size 6 will relate to that person. They do not use size 18 as much as they should for print – though… size 18 makes the most money." The pathetic truth is plus-sized models' bodies are headed in the opposite direction of actual plus-size women's bodies.

 

According to the CDC, the average American woman is a size 14, and yet the dominant sizes in the industry are 0, 2, and 4. At size 8, the plus-size models are considerably smaller than the average American women, and if that isn't indicative of how delusional we are about what the majority of woman's bodies look like, I don't know what is.

 

--

 

Stefania Ferrario: 'I am a model'

Stefania Ferrario is smaller than the average woman in America, but the size 8 stunner is considered "plus-size" by the modeling industry. In an effort to change the impossible beauty standards set by the fashion world, Dita Von Teese's new lingerie model celebrates her curves while challenging the world to accept her as a model: "I am a model FULL STOP. Unfortunately in the modeling industry if you're above a US size 4 you are considered plus size, and so I'm often labeled a 'plus size' model. I do NOT find this empowering. It is harmful and damaging to the minds of young girls to call a model "plus." Let's have models of all shapes, sizes, and ethnicities, and drop the misleading labels! I'm NOT proud to be called "plus," but I AM proud to be called a "model', that is my profession! #droptheplus." (@stefania_model via Instagram, Stefania Ferrario via Facebook)

[toodarnhot]

Barbara has literally never been marketed as a plus sized model by any brand, agency or photographer. She’s also not an 8. 

[ivancica]

3 hours ago, toodarnhot said:

Barbara has literally never been marketed as a plus sized model by any brand, agency or photographer. 

That was what I was thinking.

The only place I heard/read about her being a plus size is here.

[VSDiaries]

I kinda land in the middle with Barbs/plus size. (sorry if this has been over-discussed!)

TLDR - I agree she's probably 'plus-size' by industry standard but I still don't think of her as VS's first 'plus sized angel'... as I think the title 'plus-size model' has been made to mean a whole other thing that just size/figure.  (dumb semantics I know)

 

I've been lectured/shown enough real-life comparison photos by one of BP's more dedicated anti-stans and I understand in real life she is slim/tiny/in no way 'plus'. (I also get 'plus' is an industry-determined standard and doesn't align with what we think is plus etc etc etc.) But looking at her VS shoots last year she's pretty clearly a different body type to the rest of the Angels/the industry. You could put them side by side with Lorena D's photo shoots & she looked equally/sometimes more 'fuller figured' even if we know she isn't in reality. (I understand that she's lost weight this year since though so this no longer applies.) So I agree with her being considered "plus-size:.

 

But I still don't really consider her a 'plus size model' as a title? I get she's a model & she's probably plus-size now or w/e but I think the separation in the industry between model & plus size model is so strongly delineated that being titled a 'plus size model' is a whole other thing for your career/experiences. I don't think BP fits that criteria entirely (maybe because she wasn't at the outset of her career or when her career really took off etc idk.) Like toodarnhot said she's just never been promoted in that way while other Plus-size models are always primarily identified this way. (I don't encourage this delinieation btw - I love what prettyphile posted above about removing the plus!)

I think for me  Lorena D is first/foremost a 'plus size model' and when VS engaged with her they probably did so for that reason. (not to discredit her work and how well she's doing.) I think when VS took BP back on board they did it primarily because she's 'Barbara Palvin' and whatever associated benefits that brings. She just so happened to also be (or not be idc) 'plus size' at the time. Like when they shot with Winnie Harlow I don't think they were thinking of vitiligo representation I think they were just going for 'Winnie Harlow' haha. 

[VSDiaries]

Also I don't know if it was mentioned earlier - 

The VS offices were visited by a jeweller back in February (I think) 
I've been wondering if that hints towards the possibility of a FB or similiar hype piece this year? (Maybe I'm reaching) 

(I can't remember which jeweller/brand it was off the top of my head but it'd be in my screenshots somewhere)

[toodarnhot]

^ They give the Angels a jewelry piece every year as a Christmas gift. (I think they got rings and necklaces the past two years?) Could maybe have been for that, though it seems unlikely they’d actually bring a jeweller to the offices for that.  

[bump]

I don't know much about plus size and whatnot, but I like Lorena Duran for VS a lot. she's cute. 

[Clauds]

Lol Barbara is not plus-size and she has literally never been branded as plus-size by anyone, not even her agency. Lorena is for sure plus-size by industry standards but tbh I've been living her VS work, if she keeps working steadily for them, she's my top candidate for 2020 Angel.

[CandleVixen]

19 hours ago, Prettyphile said:

...So for all intents and purposes, Barbara is plus sized by the people who hold the purse strings.

 

... most plus-size clothing doesn't even start until a size 16.

 

...According to Anthony Higgins, the director at MSA Models, "[catalogs] will use a size 8 because they think size 14 and 16 will relate to that person and size 4 and size 6 will relate to that person. They do not use size 18 as much as they should for print – though… size 18 makes the most money." The pathetic truth is plus-sized models' bodies are headed in the opposite direction of actual plus-size women's bodies.

 

...average American woman is a size 14, and yet the dominant sizes in the industry are 0, 2, and 4. At size 8, the plus-size models are considerably smaller than the average American women, and if that isn't indicative of how delusional we are about what the majority of woman's bodies look like, I don't know what is.

 

--

Stefania Ferrario: 'I am a model'

Stefania Ferrario is smaller than the average woman in America, but the size 8 stunner is considered "plus-size" by the modeling industry. In an effort to change the impossible beauty standards set by the fashion world, Dita Von Teese's new lingerie model celebrates her curves while challenging the world to accept her as a model: "I am a model FULL STOP. Unfortunately in the modeling industry if you're above a US size 4 you are considered plus size, and so I'm often labeled a 'plus size' model. I do NOT find this empowering. It is harmful and damaging to the minds of young girls to call a model "plus." Let's have models of all shapes, sizes, and ethnicities, and drop the misleading labels! I'm NOT proud to be called "plus," but I AM proud to be called a "model', that is my profession! #droptheplus." (@stefania_model via Instagram, Stefania Ferrario via Facebook)

1) I adore Stefania. Thanks Pretty for your inclusion of her in this post. 

 

2) Thank you for posting this info again. 

 

For what it’s worth, y’all can go back to

page 2296, dated 8/5, is where the convo about the industry and their what is plus size and who to put in that catagory.

 

3) I truly did not mean to confuse @toodarnhot and others about this. 

[Rafikabir85]

Just now, toodarnhot said:

^ They give the Angels a jewelry piece every year as a Christmas gift. (I think they got rings and necklaces the past two years?) Could maybe have been for that, though it seems unlikely they’d actually bring a jeweller to the offices for that.  

who is that girl in that gif ?    OMG she is an angel

[toodarnhot]

28 minutes ago, Rafikabir85 said:

who is that girl in that gif ?    OMG she is an angel

It’s Lorena Rae. Please don’t use my gifs as your avatar. 

[bump]

I would also like to see Lorena Duran as an Angel. I wish they would cut some Angels first though. I won't list them as I know I get annoying with that stuff, but I would much rather have Lorena than a good 6-7 of the current Angels. 

 

and I keep forgetting Grace is an Angel! Like, she was great for PINK and I adore her, so why can I never remember she's now an official Angel? 

and when does filming for the Christmas commercial start?  I wish they'd bring back the catalogue too. 

[jessicanicole]

 

[Bettina Saw-Morgan]