Most Historically Accurate WW2 Films

[Cult Icon]

Ohh, so its likes that, huh? Nobody mentioned the "Tuskegee Airmen" or 'Red Tails'. Perhaps my people's involvment in WWII is not considered as important enough. 'The Thin Red Line' is by far my favorite WWII film.

[SympathysSilhouette]

Ohh, so its likes that, huh? Nobody mentioned the "Tuskegee Airmen" or 'Red Tails'. Perhaps my people's involvment in WWII is not considered as important enough. 'The Thin Red Line' is by far my favorite WWII film.

At least American blacks have a little coverage.. the 'Tuskegee Airmen' and the 'Black Panthers Tank Battalion' are less than a drop in a bucket compared to the 25 million soldiers that died in the war...

I like the 'Thin Red Line' too, as it's about the average participant who couldn't care less and wants to go home.

If you are going for most realistic, the used tactics in many of these features are ludicrous.

The use of armor in the final battle of "Saving Private Ryan" is beyond absurd.

The real US servicemen wished they had faced such incompetent enemy commanders.

There are far worse than the bridge scene in SPR...

I didn't suggest this was the worst offender by any means, just the first example that came to mind.

If we are talking semi-recent movies, the partizan attack at the end of Defiance is another such gem.

[Cult Icon]

I didn't suggest this was the worst offender by any means, just the first example that came to mind.

If we are talking semi-recent movies, the partizan attack at the end of Defiance is another such gem.

[Cult Icon]

The rest of my Normandy plates June-August 1944. The Film 'Patton' involves Operation Cobra, which was the defeat of the German army in Normandy. Although I have to say, I am disappointed of the fact that so few movies have been made on the heavy armored and ground battles in this theater. D-day and the US parachute operation is covered, but little else is. :

Plate 1-5: Fighting in the British & Commonwealth sectors

1-2: German armored infantry and tanks fight in Caen

3: British armored forces in Caen

4: British armored operation: Epson

5: British armored operation: Goodwood; German Flak batteries destroy Allied tanks.

Plate 6-11- the Allied Breakout in Normandy and the defeat of German forces via the 'Falaise pocket'.

6: The effects of Allied carpet bombing

7: Advancing US armored divisions

8: German AT gun fronts are defeated by US assault troops in the bocage.

9-11: Situation critical for the Germans: Now the German armies are surrounded by US, British, Canadian, and other commonwealth forces and heavily weakened by months of fighting. Hitler orders the 'Mortain counteroffensive' as a desperation stroke against vastly superior forces. The Panzer counterattack fails, and the Allies complete their encirclement and destruction of a German army. The Germans are now on the run from Normandy.

Eastern Front: June -end August 1944.While the Germans lost 400,000 men in the West, they were to lose 900,000 men in the East. The heart was torn out of the German Army.

Operation Bagration was the most powerful Allied attack of the war, and it was executed by the Red Army:

But, as usual, the average person west of the Rhine has never heard of Bagration, and seems to have no idea that it actually happened.

[TheBaronOfFratton]

The 'strength' of SPR was its ability to show the individual details, such as the sheer exhaustion & psychological trauma of the men involved, the astronomical death tolls, the predominance of artillery/mortars, infantry organization, and the gruesome nature of the injuries. The webbing and equipment is also of a higher standard of accuracy.

But its adherence to historical accuracy ends there ....When I saw it 13 years ago or so, I found it thrilling and thoughtful. Now, with more knowledge, I find it inadequate...For one, the protagonists are all far too old (middle aged or in their 30s) to be doing what they are doing. Their traveling conversations are very hokey..The situation that they find themselves in (saving private ryan) is improbable.

^I suppose where you and I differ then is what we want from a film. I mean, for this example in particular the clue is in the title - it's called Saving Private Ryan, not A Painstakingly Realistic Depiction Of The Normandy Invasion. I thought the premise was built on the improbable: in that they were rescuing the last surviving 'Ryan' as some sort of totem. There have been plenty of films in the past that purport (or at least create the illusion) to be "true" and are almost insultingly inaccurate (U-571 springs to mind) so that I think a film like SPR is appreciated in its attempts to create a realistic backdrop to what is a fictional drama and all that that entails (such as the aforementioned "hokey" dialogue to evoke empathy).

[Cult Icon]

Indeed, I am trying to pull out what's historical from these movies and separate it from the fiction...hence this thread. I also applaud painstaking realistic depictions. :-p

I never saw U-571. But I saw Pearl Harbor, and it can't possibly be worse....

^I suppose where you and I differ then is what we want from a film. I mean, for this example in particular the clue is in the title - it's called Saving Private Ryan, not A Painstakingly Realistic Depiction Of The Normandy Invasion. I thought the premise was built on the improbable: in that they were rescuing the last surviving 'Ryan' as some sort of totem. There have been plenty of films in the past that purport (or at least create the illusion) to be "true" and are almost insultingly inaccurate (U-571 springs to mind) so that I think a film like SPR is appreciated in its attempts to create a realistic backdrop to what is a fictional drama and all that that entails (such as the aforementioned "hokey" dialogue to evoke empathy).

[Cult Icon]

I'm doing Patton (1970) next. Will edit this post in due course..

Favorite tidbits:

" For over a thousand years, Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of a triumph - a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeters and musicians and strange animals from the conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conqueror rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children, robed in white, stood with him in the chariot, or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror, holding a golden crown, and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting."

[TheBaronOfFratton]

Indeed, I am trying to pull out what's historical from these movies and separate it from the fiction...hence this thread. I also applaud painstaking realistic depictions. :-p

[Cult Icon]

! Documentaries, like much of journalism, is a form of entertainment Also, their coverage is much too shallow and often inaccurate.

The footage they use is largely newsreel material, but a lot of this stuff is either staged or not close enough to the killzone as the cameramen may venture as far as the staging area of the battle but usually not any farther. The photographic evidence of the battle is often lacking, as well. This is why I've been posting artist renderings to cover the gaps.

All of it is also sanitized. No civilians get mass murdered. There are often mounds of corpses but one rarely sees anybody get killed.

And what's further disappointing is the fact that the Allies produced little good footage. It was the Nazi war cult and propaganda ministry that put big emphasis on war footage. Search it on youtube...the amount of materials span the whole war.

^Wouldn't you rather just stick to the myriad documentaries available on this war though then?

Films can try to replicate the matter in a more personal and interactive way- think Das Boot. (great movie)

Kursk: The greatest armored battle: Nazi Newsreel: Notice how far away the camera man is from the actual action. He's still in the formation areas.

9:50 - This is the few up close and personal combat American clips that were actually made during the war..(as in the cameraman put himself directly in harm's wary..)

[Cult Icon]

^It concerns itself with the capture of the 'Enigma' machine - which led to the Allies breaking the German codes. But although it never purported to strictly be a "true" story, it deliberately left that impression - and the producers refused a request to make it clear that this was a purely fictional recreation.

I guess that would normally be OK in a typical 'war' movie - but the problem was that the film chose to change the nationality of the navy who achieved this, and set events to a year later in 1942 to allow for that country's entry into the war - so inevitably it did create a lot of justifiable ill-feeling.

[TheBaronOfFratton]

So it's a British meme about the way American producers emphasis only their country in their own films?

[Cult Icon]

I managed to find Stalingrad 1993 on youtube. It is a must-see like Das Boot. It's greatest value lies in its attention to detail. It's a strong film until the last half hour (where the story kind of just falls apart). This movie plays a lot on the 'Good/Bad German' schick and it's gets progressively more grating as the film progresses.

But it's the best depiction of Stalingrad ever put on Film as it goes through the months in 'Stalingrad'. The amount of attention to props and environmental constructions make it indispensable and educational. They managed to consult historians, memoirs, period photographs, etc. and succeeded in featuring near 100% authentic props (food, weapons, living conditions, housing, customs, etc..). This is very rare for a war film...

^Well there's "emphasis" and then there's producing a film that says they did something that the others did... <_< Bear in mind how many people get their history solely from such fare and it's a genuine concern! Actually, the screenwriter (David Ayer) apologised several years later on a BBC radio show where he said: 'It was a distortion...a mercenary decision...to create this parallel history in order to drive the movie for an American audience. Both my grandparents [sic] were officers in World War II, and I would be personally offended if somebody distorted their achievements.'

The film took some more flack (re: your other points) in how it depicted the German crew, it implied that it was their policy to kill any survivors of destroyed vessels (and further to revel in it) instead of the actual policy of both sides to just not rescue them.

There was a British film made that lampooned this Hollywood trend of glamourising US involvement to the detriment of everybody else, by portraying Winston Churchill as an 'All-American Action Hero'. Unfortunately the premise was much funnier than the end result and it kind of lost it's way. Still, you might be interested for the purposes of this thread:

[Lkjh]

Stalingrad is my favorite(bad choice of words ) the most interesting part of WW2, when you ask me.

My history teacher has read about 30 books about it, and can talk on and on and on.

So except for the one mentioned above, any movie-reccomandations?

[Cult Icon]

Hi W,

Post 6 and post 12 are my recommendations.

How does Stalingrad interest you? You must have a heart of iron...

Oh, and here's some excellent plates that I had saved...

Stalingrad: Crossing the Volga, Hell in the Barricady gun factory, Soviet Operation Mars

Operation Typhoon- battle for Moscow:

Battles for Kharkov (this depicts III out of IV)

[Lkjh]

Ahaha like I said, it's not a very friendly subject, but I'm very interested in psychology and the decisions made on both sides about not giving up defence/attack under such hopeless circumstances fascinates me.

Torrent hunt is on

Thank you!

[Cult Icon]

Oh, I was just teasing you.

The whole of the Eastern front was a tug-of-war. Both sides were more and less evenly matched for the moment. There was no grand 'knock-out' blow. But finally, the Germans started caving in at Stalingrad. After Stalingrad, the German Army was no longer able to achieve immense victories.

Here's a link to Stalingrad 1959. I have never seen it, but it looks good (I skimmed through the whole thing, but it looks very pro-German biased, which should lead one to tread carefully.):

For me, the most fascinating battles of WW2 were the Ardennes Offensive (Battle of the Bulge, winter 1944) and the whole of the Russian campaign.

Ardennes 1944- Death throes of a once dominant war machine. Then it's replacement by a new one:

[Lkjh]

Little do you know that I'm actually a psychopath.

Thanks for the link!

[Cult Icon]

Did you know that the world is run by psychopaths? :-p

Little do you know that I'm actually a psychopath.

[Lkjh]

Did you know that the world is run by psychopaths? :-p

Sound like a cool job-prospect

[Cult Icon]

Sound like a cool job-prospect

When you run the world, you 'make' the jobs, my dear.