Jennka Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If a women walks by a construction site and gets the token wolf-whistle, is it her fault? Absolutely not. I don’t care if she’s clothed in nothing but a G-string and heels; it was the men who chose to act out on impulses. Unless you consider why those items were invented. For rape?
SympathysSilhouette Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If a women walks by a construction site and gets the token wolf-whistle, is it her fault? Absolutely not. I don’t care if she’s clothed in nothing but a G-string and heels; it was the men who chose to act out on impulses. Unless you consider why those items were invented. To add a couple of inches of height and as an undergarment?
phenobarbie Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Heels were actually created initially for men. As for that whole argument, I don't necessarily think that men are strictly at fault, (in the case of catcalls, whistles or general voices of appreciation) but the onus of rape definitely falls on the perpetrator not the victim.In some ways walking around dressed in scanty clothing is similar to throwing a piece of meat in front of an animal. You don't get mad when they sniff it, or show interest because it smells good. Personally I think feminism is great, but it's quite often taken overboard where there is no accountability for the woman, and the blame for everything is solely placed on the man. Kinda like reverse racism. I mean, has anyone seen women when it comes to male strippers?
U.K. Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 To add a couple of inches of height and as an undergarment? I agree they shouldn't whistle but I think he means if it (thong) was designed as underwear why does Alexandria not care if women walk topless past construction sites (or other public places) in nothing but that thong (which wasn't designed to be shown in public). Wouldn't women potentially mind/say something if men/women wore just that?
jj3 Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 MJ_Day 15.05.14 Awww I WISH! But I'm in a shoot!!! Drop it low for me!! rt@VoidTheMag: dear @mj_day will you go to Void Prom with us?>> https://twitter.com/MJ_Day/status/466977275456806913 Is it for SI15 ?
2324lebron Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If a women walks by a construction site and gets the token wolf-whistle, is it her fault? Absolutely not. I don’t care if she’s clothed in nothing but a G-string and heels; it was the men who chose to act out on impulses. Unless you consider why those items were invented. For rape? Oh, dear Jennka, I didn't expect that to be brought into the conversation. She didn't mention rape in her article. It was all about verbal harassment. Her concluding sentence: Women shouldn’t have to live in fear of men and their verbal slander—or slander from other women, for that matter. Sure, agreed. I don't know why she got upset because some nerds wrote her an email that was probably less about criticizing her and more about giggling over writing to the school hot girl. The other stuff that happened was bad though.
MarVS Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 MJ_Day 15.05.14 Awww I WISH! But I'm in a shoot!!! Drop it low for me!! rt@VoidTheMag: dear @mj_day will you go to Void Prom with us? >> https://twitter.com/MJ_Day/status/466977275456806913 Is it for SI15 ? probably... i think they are done with givin teasers boooooooo
Prettyphile Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 ^ If she does end teasergate then I'm happy about it. It's like knowing every single x-mas gift you're going to get before. Come Christmas morning it ruins the experience. (and selfishly it gives me more to hold over your heads... you) If she does continue to give us teaser then you can look forward to slightly altered pics to try and throw us.
MarVS Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If she does continue to give us teaser then you can look forward to slightly altered pics to try and throw us. they have done that and we did a good job after all lol... well this thread is going to be boring... the 50 posts thing dont make sense now
Prettyphile Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Because the thread was amazing even with a couple of teaser pics here and there? 95% of this thread is chow chow up till the night of magazine's release. Nothing is going to change if they discontinue the teaser pics... and if they keep them, it's still 95% chow chow, memes and side conversations about magical unicorns, spiders, soul sucking bugs, feminism, rape (like wtf x.x), swag, MOLLY, World of Warcraft and possible models who will work for SI. Marv get to know the Based God
Limerlight Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Because the thread was amazing even with a couple of teaser pics here and there?95% of this thread is chow chow up till the night of magazine's release. Nothing is going to change if they discontinue the teaser pics... and if they keep them, it's still 95% chow chow, memes and side conversations about magical unicorns, spiders, soul sucking bugs, feminism, rape (like wtf x.x), swag, MOLLY, World of Warcraft and possible models who will work for SI. Marv get to know the Based God Did someone say Chow Chow? [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
Prettyphile Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Did someone say: Swimwear designs by Beach Bunny. I wonder if ^ she is going to be in this years issue!? But she's just another blonde
Memento Mori Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 As for that whole argument, I don't necessarily think that men are strictly at fault, (in the case of catcalls, whistles or general voices of appreciation) but the onus of rape definitely falls on the perpetrator not the victim.In some ways walking around dressed in scanty clothing is similar to throwing a piece of meat in front of an animal. You don't get mad when they sniff it, or show interest because it smells good. Personally I think feminism is great, but it's quite often taken overboard where there is no accountability for the woman, and the blame for everything is solely placed on the man. Kinda like reverse racism. I mean, has anyone seen women when it comes to male strippers? Except men aren't animals and women aren't meat. There is a simple explanation, though, and it falls under the umbrella of rape culture. Feminism doesn't think men are animals, feminism is about accountability for a culture that harms women as well as men. Such as portraying men as animals in the guise of trying to forgive us for negative behaviors we've been conditioned to believe are not only acceptable, but essential to what has become a destructively narrow masculine ideal. Feminism's "problem" is one of branding. People have this idea in their heads that feminism represents some kind of gender cold war, with borders and arms limitations treaties and casus belli, and that's not what it's about at all. Also, there's no such thing as reverse racism. But this isn't a sociology seminar. What Alexandria Morgan quoted above in the thread is a classic case of victim blaming. Edit: Misunderstood who was being quoted. Ms. Morgan was correct to call it out for what it was in her article: If a women walks by a construction site and gets the token wolf-whistle, is it her fault? Absolutely not. I don’t care if she’s clothed in nothing but a G-string and heels; it was the men who chose to act out on impulses. There's a lot to unpack here, and her article is a good start.
SympathysSilhouette Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Heels were actually created initially for men. As for that whole argument, I don't necessarily think that men are strictly at fault, (in the case of catcalls, whistles or general voices of appreciation) but the onus of rape definitely falls on the perpetrator not the victim.In some ways walking around dressed in scanty clothing is similar to throwing a piece of meat in front of an animal. You don't get mad when they sniff it, or show interest because it smells good. Personally I think feminism is great, but it's quite often taken overboard where there is no accountability for the woman, and the blame for everything is solely placed on the man. Kinda like reverse racism. I mean, has anyone seen women when it comes to male strippers?I think the problem with that reasoning is that it gives men certain liberties based upon the attire the woman is wearing. Hence why defense lawyers will always try to prove that the woman was dressed provocatively and that she had too much to drink in a rape case.Beyond that, it's icky to place even a tiny fraction of the blame with the victim in a disgusting crime like rape.
SympathysSilhouette Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If a women walks by a construction site and gets the token wolf-whistle, is it her fault? Absolutely not. I don’t care if she’s clothed in nothing but a G-string and heels; it was the men who chose to act out on impulses. Unless you consider why those items were invented. For rape? Oh, dear Jennka, I didn't expect that to be brought into the conversation. She didn't mention rape in her article. It was all about verbal harassment. Her concluding sentence: Women shouldn’t have to live in fear of men and their verbal slander—or slander from other women, for that matter. Sure, agreed. I don't know why she got upset because some nerds wrote her an email that was probably less about criticizing her and more about giggling over writing to the school hot girl. The other stuff that happened was bad though. Not sure if I agree, that email was crude and obviously meant to suggest that she was a "loose woman" or whatever you want to call it. I don't think anyone has the right to randomly send such crap around.
phenobarbie Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Scientifically speaking we are technically all animals, and "rape culture" is used to blame a lot that is simply "human nature". I'm not saying that it's good, but some of it isn't just conditioning, it's the so called "nature of the beast" So I will stand by the meat analogy. As for feminism doing a huge blame game, or not as you seem to believe I think you need to get out and talk to some so called "feminists". Going to some of their rallies, meetings and talking to them behind the scenes literally leads to more male bashing then it does to constructive work, especially when you start to look at the younger generation of feminists.Like I said, I think the whole idea of feminism is a great one, but I think the message got lost for a lot of people.Seriously though, think about a hot guy walking down the street in a pair of board shorts. They get whistles, cat calls, "good natured ribbing" from girls, and most people will see nothing wrong with it. Hell I've watched women be a part of the so called "bun police" and literally grope men in such a fashion that if it were a guy doing it to a girl it would be called sexual harassment, but again most people wont see a problem.Or look at male strippers versus female strippers. There's a lot of rules and safeguards put in place for female strippers, the predominant one being "don't touch". I've talked to numerous male strippers and not only is that rule not put in place for the majority of them, if it is it's not enforced. We're talking bruising, from pinching, slapping, over zealous groping. Women literally turn into a bunch of wild animals at some bachlorette parties, but many feminists will overlook the clear double standards.This is like the whole idea of domestic abuse. How long did it take for people to sit back and realize it's not always the man that is the abuser? Hell to this day a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that women can be just as much an "animal" as a man. When I worked with abuse victims, there was for the longest time absolutely no safeguards, or security nets put in for male abuse victims, it's not like they could be brought to the same facility as the female abuse victims.So forgive me if I disagree with the whole "rape culture" theory. Especially when it's only being directed to umbrella a woman's protection. If you read the article from Alexandria and read the top comment afterwards I think that spells it out. Most people who are going to rape another don't give a shit what you're wearing, or how you're acting. They take advantage of the victim, or what's easiest for them to get. Opportune exploitation. Cat calls and whistles or mans way of saying "I like" not "I want to rape".Part of the whole issue now a days is everyone is so obsessed with the idea of political correctness, and staying in these pretty little boxes of self containment that if you step outside of it it's being put into a blanket category, "in this case part of rape culture".Society in this day and age sees women as the victims, and men as the clear cut abusers.Oh, and on the topic of "reverse racism" obviously I know it's not a "real thing". It's a term that was mockingly said when it comes to racism that is directed at a Caucasian person. Because clearly only "minorities" can be the victims of racism, and historically speaking white people have always been the abusers.Racism is racism, it doesn't matter what culture, color or religious background someone has. If you call a black person a jigaboo, it's no different then if you call a white person a cracker, but most people will jump on the bandwagon of the oppressed black man versus the white man. Again it comes down to a massive double standard.Either way you look at it it's wrong. Sadly "absolute power" does corrupt, and in a historical sense a lot of white people have had "absolute power" throughout history, at least the history that is most well known.
Memento Mori Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 I'll keep this brief as not to encourage the thread moving further off-topic. First, I think we must acknowledge that feminism is not a monolith. The very article to rape culture I linked contains plenty of feminist critiques of the very idea, good ones too. What I'd insist upon is that dismissing feminism with scare quotes does little for discussion, and a lot for discrediting the entire field. Which, intentions be damned, encourages reactionaries who would love to see even its least controversial goals fail. In any case, your appeal to the taxonomy of the human animal does little to undermine the distinction such arguments present. Men are not feral. We are rational. We have agency. We are also a product of our environment. The environment can and ought to be changed to expect better of us. Second, I too grew up believing that there are few things as unjust as double standards. And in plenty of cases, double standards are something to reject. However, in the real world, all things are not equal, including those things which appear so when placed in categories that imply they are. Double standards that exist for the purpose, explicit or implicit, of correcting injustice or unfairness are not themselves unjust. For example: It may be possible to imagine a world in which racism is not irrevocably entwined by history and present circumstance with white supremacy, but that's definitively not the world we live in. A double standard which acknowledges that reality is not an injustice, it is a moral imperative. And that's all I've got to say in this thread about any of that.
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