PinkCouture

You know, that's interesting Jennka- you talk about that often yet I still don't fully understand. And I do want to understand. I'm not a nature person (perhaps not yet) and I often think that having all basic necessities being provided to me is actually a privilege of modernity and my income. It frees up energy for working and doing things that I want. I just find basic tasks to be kind of mundane. My brain has de-linked itself from the feeling of achievement or pleasure from performing these fundamental activities.

So I like having my own freezer, food, laundry, running water, bath, toilet, heat, power supplies, fuel, etc. provided to me in the smoothest, quickest manner possible...

In economics terms, you are enjoying a 'public good', free of charge and perhaps by virtue of sheer luck of the draw, being in beautiful Slovakia, and having the happy & complementary social relations. So, when you're in the woods.....

By enjoying these public goods (in 'Marxian or Polanyi' terms) you are thus freeing yourself of the burden of those 'fictitious commodities directly linked with the capitalist system' :-D

I know this wasn't exactly directed at me but I remember watching the camping episode of "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica", and thinking if I were in that situation I would totally behave the way Jessica did. Ok, maybe not that extreme I am totally not a "nature girl" It would be torture not to have a running water and toilet. Also, put in the wild and I guarantee you I would be eaten by a bear within 24 hrs!

However that is not to say I don't enjoy nature. I just prefer not to live in it for an extended period---more than a day or 2.

It isn't peaceful b/c most people don't appreciate the simple things in life and their environment. Also, most people think it is the poor who are the most screwed up when in fact it is usually the middle-class.

Can you explain more? How does it look, how does it affect you, where and when do you encounter such matters and behaviour? I´m very interested in such things

You know, that's interesting Jennka- you talk about that often yet I still don't fully understand. And I do want to understand. I'm not a nature person (perhaps not yet) and I often think that having all basic necessities being provided to me is actually a privilege of modernity and my income. It frees up energy for working and doing things that I want. I just find basic tasks to be kind of mundane. My brain has de-linked itself from the feeling of achievement or pleasure from performing these fundamental activities.

So I like having my own freezer, food, laundry, running water, bath, toilet, heat, power supplies, fuel, etc. provided to me in the smoothest, quickest manner possible...

In economics terms, you are enjoying a 'public good', free of charge and perhaps by virtue of sheer luck of the draw, being in beautiful Slovakia, and having the happy & complementary social relations. So, when you're in the woods.....

By enjoying these public goods (in 'Marxian or Polanyi' terms) you are thus freeing yourself of the burden of those 'fictitious commodities directly linked with the capitalist system' :-D

I know this wasn't exactly directed at me but I remember watching the camping episode of "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica", and thinking if I were in that situation I would totally behave the way Jessica did. Ok, maybe not that extreme I am totally not a "nature girl" It would be torture not to have a running water and toilet. Also, put in the wild and I guarantee you I would be eaten by a bear within 24 hrs!

However that is not to say I don't enjoy nature. I just prefer not to live in it for an extended period---more than a day or 2.

Always great to have more people joined in conversation PC, most women (and even men) I know tell me exactly the same - they enjoy the nature, just don´t prefer to live in it "for an extended period". Actually I don´t know many people that are different way - aside from those I meet in woods.

Andy, sometimes I do not understand my own self, so I do not promise to give you sufficient answers - but I´ll try.

The first thing is, I really enjoy living in my beautiful Slovakia that is true - aside from the political situation of course, that could be better, but also worse as well. The issue of happy & complementary social relations is questionable - yes, I have both parents that gave me everything, I have a brother and sister and we get on quite well, I have my fl which I love and his family to whom I am like their daughter. I have friends - I find them, I lose them sometimes, but I really like them. I own a car that I like. I have a flat to live in (though it is not mine and it is damn small) and I have a job I quite like. In these terms I´m a damn happy person.

Now, you know my issues with my family, I won´t go repeating them I work hard to pay for the car I own and can´t afford buying a normal flat to have a family. Everything has its pros and cos, I know it.

Btw I love this sentence: "By enjoying these public goods (in 'Marxian or Polanyi' terms) you are thus freeing yourself of the burden of those 'fictitious commodities directly linked with the capitalist system'" wonderful.

Now I´ll try to explain it further - when I´m in woods, I feel alive. I feel peacefull. I enjoy bringing water (we have a well little far away from the timber hut, not too much), I enjoy making fire, I enjoy sleeping in the timber hut as well as outside - I feel like a whole person

At the cottage it´s the same, but contrary to the timber hut, we have a fridge here and electricity and a normal loo (the whole normal bathroom) and of course normal bedrooms, it´s quite normal house afterall. But we are not connected to city water supply, we have our own wells, two of them. In winter we turn off the water (so the pipes won´t get torn up by freezed water in them) and all the water needed for bathing, washing up the dishes, cooking and flushing the loo has to be brought in in jars by us The wood you need for heating has to be chopped and brought in, you need to take care about it and find a place for it, you need to remember how many years it has (because you can´t heat with wood that is not at least 2 years "old" - that means at least 2 years after it was treated).

You need to take care about the whole house (you could see the reconstruction works that still continue.)

It´s not as easy as when I go "home" then, in the flat, and have everything without any hard work. And yet, these two are the places where I feel happy, alive and full of energy and peace at the same time. I love those places to death, I love that hard work, I love the effort and I love the reward after that. I love to work with wood - to chop it, to split it with splitting hammer, to treat it with my chainsaw there is never one moment to be bored, to not have anything to do I love to create things and think about how will we do this, and that, and how to make hand-rail to the terrace we´ve built I love to plant trees and take care about them, to see how kittens are bred and grew up (because we have lot of them there ) and I would love to have a goat or cow to take care about her.

I love to go on vanders, to have my bag on my shoulders and walk anywhere we want, sleep under stars or sheet when it rains it feels beautiful, I feel like home. Once we were playing a game - our friend drove with us to different places 5km of the staying place, left us in woods (each member at different place) and we had to find our way to the staying place - he only told us the direction like "go southeast" or "head to the west". I thought I get lost, but wasn´t afraid - what could possible happen to me in wood? I am used to sleep in it, so I wasn´t really afraid to get lost afterall... and sooner or later I would get out. But I surprised myself I found my way to the staying place afterall and won the competition. It was an amazing experience for me. Even more that I easily get lost anywhere

These are things that make me happy in general - why, exactly, I don´t really know... I just know I love them and want to teach my kids the same. Maybe I feel more connected to nature that way? Maybe I´m crazy? Maybe I´m a dinosaur of this age? Anything is possible

And sorry for the long post

Is there anything to be said for forming an evil corporation instead? I've always secretly wanted to join one and valuing profits above ethics is something I could really see myself getting into.

BZ is already an evil "corporation" Unfortunately we are not the ones who are profiting from it.

Where do I sign up for a share of the profits?

Sharing profits?? Count me in

I guess it has helped me "understand media" better??? The book was definitely...interesting. I am pretty sure McLuhan was under the influence and/or on some sort of recreational drugs when he wrote the book. However I give him props for predicting things that has happened or is happening in our communications and media right now (Y)

The rule of thumb I use when reading a press article is 'trust nothing, scrutinize everything from the perspective of the journalist & his constituents'. Seeing evidence of hyperbole, hysteria, and specious or cliched ideological claims automatically sends me into defensive mode. This tends to make me skim & skip the article entirely. :-p

I know this wasn't exactly directed at me but I remember watching the camping episode of "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica", and thinking if I were in that situation I would totally behave the way Jessica did. Ok, maybe not that extreme I am totally not a "nature girl" It would be torture not to have a running water and toilet. Also, put in the wild and I guarantee you I would be eaten by a bear within 24 hrs!

However that is not to say I don't enjoy nature. I just prefer not to live in it for an extended period---more than a day or 2.

You're more than welcome :=D

My greatest fear, regarding the outdoors...is running out of 5 layer toilet paper and having to resort to eating ants for protein....!

Actually, I really value toilet paper, lol even more when I´m in woods

Actually, I really value toilet paper, lol even more when I´m in woods

I can't imagine using leaves. The risk of a rash..!!!

What's the longest period of time that you've spent in the woods?

Always great to have more people joined in conversation PC, most women (and even men) I know tell me exactly the same - they enjoy the nature, just don

I can't imagine using leaves. The risk of a rash..!!!

What's the longest period of time that you've spent in the woods?

Lol I used the leaves several times... it is not very comfortable and I definitely prefer toilet paper but... in the cases of serious need, it´s better than nothing

The longest period... I think it was a week. I have never been able to afford more, though. Which really sucks... we mostly leave for 4-days long vander because it is Easter holiday here, so we use all the free time we have - the other free time (work vacation) is used on the cottage reconstruction but I still dream about spending at least 2 weeks in wood - I seriously doubt we can ever manage that (because it is hard to cooperate work and vacation of all our group) but who knows

When you talk of the woods, I often think back to this hippie I knew- he was a professional 'hippie' for 15+ years and returned to nature during that period. Another 'hippie' was a retired 50+ year old software developer. He owned a sailboat and made long, dangerous voyages (alone) up north to the Canadian coast.

I wish I had more time to talk to them just to understand what these activities meant to them. Domesticated people like me have forgotten about true adventuring. I believe that functioning in great outdoors involve a spectrum of intelligences that lay dormant within most modern people. These areas of the brain have atrophied, and remain undeployed.

I know that it would take me a great deal of time and learning..to really grasp their perspectives.

Dealing with the effects of 'Overspecialization' (the primary tendency of modern working life) is something that most of us have to endure.

I cannot really imagine being alone on the sea whow. Ocean life is just so far away from me.

What exactly are these effects of "overspecialization"?

It can always be a lot worse, Jennka. That's how I approach such things. For most on this earth, being alive in this century is better than in the last. Better in the West than the South or the East.

We all mooch off the accumulated fat of previous generations.

Sometimes I feel like living 60 or 70 years sooner would be much better for me... eventhough I know how hard was life back then and how (theoretically) easy it is now with all the techniques. But somehow I think people were living much happier life than now

This term refers to how we, in the capitalist mode of production love to put a price and create a market in everything- clean air, pollution, weather futures, time, etc.

It was really funny

So you remove access to information as well? Internet, books, papers, etc. So you isolate your public life- the face one puts on for society and replace it completely with one's private face?

Never thought about it in this kind of way. But yes - no internet, no cellphone (I have mine with me, but there is no signal so it does not work), no books (but this is solemnly from practical reasons, because I love my books and do not want them to be damaged or anything ) and I never read papers anyway I mean - press.

Living in a city makes me feel like living in a huge bubble. When I go to woods or cottage, the bubble cracks and I feel like a whole person, responsible, and strong. But... it is the same face I always wear - mine own. Just more peaceful maybe

These are fascinating thoughts, Jennka. I am trying to read your words, and put the pieces together-- imagine what these things are like. But my experiences in nature are very limited, and my ability to form coherent pictures is incomplete. Alas, I cannot even imagine what these things sound or smell like

Just like I cannot imagine what your world looks like, or smells like we cannot know everything

No, don't be. You wrote something great here.

At the most basic level: I have been at peace with myself and the world. External incidents can disrupt me temporarily, but I believe the 'core' is tough and enduring. Sometimes, when entering a situation- my mind brings up conceptual patterns instantly and I figure out what the deal is rather quickly. My mind walks right through the cloud of emotions that would confuse and disrupt other people in similar situations. Likewise, I may be confused in situations that I'm not accustomed to. But my general model- of the way my mind works..is relatively robust and was formed due to emotional training- individualized personal training.

I have systematically analyzed and studied my emotions. But, the drawback..as you know is that , by often conflating certain emotions with weakness or a problem to be solved through disciplined thought, observation, and study... I deadened my emotions a great deal, and I believe much more so than most people.

Thank you

And yes, I know - that is why many people (sometimes me too) take your words in a wrong way and feel offended But I always thought that intelligent and tolerant people can always come to an agreement (that´s why I doubt 99% of politicians are intelligent or tolerant) and know each other better.

I, on the other hand, have a very strong emotions inside of me that I still cannot really control. Yes, I can be emotionless and cold when it goes to things or arguments I consider useless or exaggerative, or when people around me get too emotional (funerals, e.g.) but all those emotions appear later, when I am alone. On the other hand, I cry at Disney movies. That says it all

Hey there Pinks, how are you doing?

Lol I used the leaves several times... it is not very comfortable and I definitely prefer toilet paper but... in the cases of serious need, it´s better than nothing

The longest period... I think it was a week. I have never been able to afford more, though. Which really sucks... we mostly leave for 4-days long vander because it is Easter holiday here, so we use all the free time we have - the other free time (work vacation) is used on the cottage reconstruction but I still dream about spending at least 2 weeks in wood - I seriously doubt we can ever manage that (because it is hard to cooperate work and vacation of all our group) but who knows

I cannot really imagine being alone on the sea whow. Ocean life is just so far away from me.

This was a few years back. He invited me to a sailing trip to Canada but I couldn't make it. His trips were so dangerous that he had to make preparations with his will and insurance before each trip..

What exactly are these effects of "overspecialization"?

e.g. Spending half your working life as an expert in a narrow field & function, and waking up one morning finding out that your skills are now de-valued or worse, as redundant as a clock-maker. Knowledge workers have been proletarianized long ago. The knowledge-based economy tends to impose a tyranny on one's thoughts & priorities during the working day. There's others, as well.

Sometimes I feel like living 60 or 70 years sooner would be much better for me... eventhough I know how hard was life back then and how (theoretically) easy it is now with all the techniques. But somehow I think people were living much happier life than now

The average standard of living back then was about 1/2 to 1/4th of what the average person in the West has now.

Some of the things that comes out immediately for me are:

1. Lack of information in the 50s

2. much higher need to perform chores & manual labor

3. high level of community solidarity and claims of a "social structure" that was probably mostly due to the "balanced countervailing forces" of the time between unions, private industry, and the government which helped produce income equality. The economy was, as a residue of the war, far more dominated by vertically integrated super-corporations than today. eg. General Motors employed some 400,000 people in the 50s. And the war enhanced national solidarity as did the common enemy - communism and the Soviet Union.

4. lower education level, manufacturing based economy. Pre-computer age paper pushing was a common means of employment. So people went through life with lower mental stresses but high physical ones.

So some Old people claim that the 50s were better, but I believe that it comes, partially, from defects in memory. They remember only the good things, and marginalize what was bad or inferior. Their mental conceptions may have been more appropriate for happiness than what we have in today's over-complex modernity.

It was really funny

Never thought about it in this kind of way. But yes - no internet, no cellphone (I have mine with me, but there is no signal so it does not work), no books (but this is solemnly from practical reasons, because I love my books and do not want them to be damaged or anything ) and I never read papers anyway I mean - press.

Living in a city makes me feel like living in a huge bubble. When I go to woods or cottage, the bubble cracks and I feel like a whole person, responsible, and strong. But... it is the same face I always wear - mine own. Just more peaceful maybe

Just like I cannot imagine what your world looks like, or smells like we cannot know everything

Thank you

And yes, I know - that is why many people (sometimes me too) take your words in a wrong way and feel offended But I always thought that intelligent and tolerant people can always come to an agreement (that

^ Nice! Where were you traveling to? For work, pleasure, or a bit of both?

I am doing alright. Busy with work & etc. It is subjective b/c whether or not I am "back" depends on how one would define it

Sorry for late reply, I simply lost track I was traveling around Asia for about 7 months....It was all pleasure

So what's you're definition of "back" in this instance then

I guess it has helped me "understand media" better??? The book was definitely...interesting. I am pretty sure McLuhan was under the influence and/or on some sort of recreational drugs when he wrote the book. However I give him props for predicting things that has happened or is happening in our communications and media right now (Y)

The rule of thumb I use when reading a press article is 'trust nothing, scrutinize everything from the perspective of the journalist & his constituents'. Seeing evidence of hyperbole, hysteria, and specious or cliched ideological claims automatically sends me into defensive mode. This tends to make me skim & skip the article entirely. :-p

I know this wasn't exactly directed at me but I remember watching the camping episode of "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica", and thinking if I were in that situation I would totally behave the way Jessica did. Ok, maybe not that extreme I am totally not a "nature girl" It would be torture not to have a running water and toilet. Also, put in the wild and I guarantee you I would be eaten by a bear within 24 hrs!

However that is not to say I don't enjoy nature. I just prefer not to live in it for an extended period---more than a day or 2.

You're more than welcome :=D

My greatest fear, regarding the outdoors...is running out of 5 layer toilet paper and having to resort to eating ants for protein....!

Actually, I really value toilet paper, lol even more when I´m in woods

Funny. There is no commodity so precious in society as the last few squares of toilet paper

It isn't peaceful b/c most people don't appreciate the simple things in life and their environment. Also, most people think it is the poor who are the most screwed up when in fact it is usually the middle-class.

Can you explain more? How does it look, how does it affect you, where and when do you encounter such matters and behaviour? I´m very interested in such things

Although the suburbs is away from the city, the city life still influence people's behaviors such as being impatient, the occasional snottiness and lack of concern for the environment.

As for my comment regarding the middle-class being more screwed, most drug-related and domestic crimes are committed by the [white] middle-class. We rarely hear about it b/c it is not something most people want to hear considering we live in white-dominated society.

In response to your long post: I think we sometimes need a change of environment to keep us balance, focus and sane, so I understand what you meant by enjoying life in nature.

If you ever get a chance, you should go to Lake Louise in Alberta, Canada. It is very beautiful there, and it is one of the rare places I felt in touch w/ nature. It is naturally spirited and pristine

Is there anything to be said for forming an evil corporation instead? I've always secretly wanted to join one and valuing profits above ethics is something I could really see myself getting into.

BZ is already an evil "corporation" Unfortunately we are not the ones who are profiting from it.

Where do I sign up for a share of the profits?

Sharing profits?? Count me in

There are definitely people that are profiting from this site. Again, us three are not one of them As for signing-up, I don't think it is possible b/c that would require a higher profit split

There are definitely people that are profiting from this site. Again, us three are not one of them As for signing-up, I don't think it is possible b/c that would require a higher profit split

Profiting doing what? Search engine optimization? :-D

I guess it has helped me "understand media" better??? The book was definitely...interesting. I am pretty sure McLuhan was under the influence and/or on some sort of recreational drugs when he wrote the book. However I give him props for predicting things that has happened or is happening in our communications and media right now (Y)

The rule of thumb I use when reading a press article is 'trust nothing, scrutinize everything from the perspective of the journalist & his constituents'. Seeing evidence of hyperbole, hysteria, and specious or cliched ideological claims automatically sends me into defensive mode. This tends to make me skim & skip the article entirely. :-p

I know this wasn't exactly directed at me but I remember watching the camping episode of "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica", and thinking if I were in that situation I would totally behave the way Jessica did. Ok, maybe not that extreme I am totally not a "nature girl" It would be torture not to have a running water and toilet. Also, put in the wild and I guarantee you I would be eaten by a bear within 24 hrs!

However that is not to say I don't enjoy nature. I just prefer not to live in it for an extended period---more than a day or 2.

You're more than welcome :=D

My greatest fear, regarding the outdoors...is running out of 5 layer toilet paper and having to resort to eating ants for protein....!

Have you read On Bullshit by Harry G. Frankfurt? If not, you have to read it! There is another book, I cannot recall the name of at this moment, about journalism and how it is important to scrutinize the content b/c most of is..."bullshit"

"Eating ants for protein"...lol

恭賀新禧

龍年行大運!

恭喜發財!!!

祝你 心想事成!!!

Hey there Pinks, how are you doing?

Hello there Herve

I am doing ok. Busy, busy, busy. How have you been? What are you up to these day?

^ Nice! Where were you traveling to? For work, pleasure, or a bit of both?

I am doing alright. Busy with work & etc. It is subjective b/c whether or not I am "back" depends on how one would define it

Sorry for late reply, I simply lost track I was traveling around Asia for about 7 months....It was all pleasure

So what's you're definition of "back" in this instance then

Where did you visit in Asia?