Michael*
720 replies · 7689 views
On 21/06/2015 at 5:40 PM, Cult Icon said:I checked out some E3 stuff over the weekend. Some interesting stuff. I had pretty much felt that gaming industry was stuck in a rut but the new promotional efforts are showing some promise:
The bethesda softworks stuff looked well done. Fallout 4 looks the most interesting and derives from Fallout 3. The modern version of Doom- the classic shooter- is retro and is different at the same time; also now relies on speed and close action for survival. Deus Ex has excellent graphics and looks like a significant upgrade from Human revolution.
Most certainly these modern games have had a significant leap forward in terms of graphics and action dynamics with some improvement in gameplay.
Looks promising for the future.
I'd more or less resolved not to bother buying a PS4 any time soon, when Rocksteady went and released the new Arkham game and all manner of cool stuff was announced at E3. My temptation to give them all a try is starting to gather pace, but I can't really justify splurging on a new console at the moment, unfortunately. Maybe somewhere down the road when the price drops a bit. 
Not sure if you're the one around here I asked the last time, but where do you come in on the whole Christiano vs. Messi debate in terms of individual talent? Well, aside from one using one foot most of the time that is
. Also, is there a list somewhere of the members who currently make gifs? I don't know whether they still do the request thread or not anyway.
I think if you were going to build the ideal modern attacking footballer in a lab, you'd probably end up with Ronaldo. He's evolved again over the last year or so, and seems to have reached a point now where he moves less, probably even touches the ball less, but has sharpened his attacking presence into a razor's edge. Saying that, there's not a lot that could sway me from the opinion that Messi is the best ever. He's the more subtle creative player, relies less on speed and athleticism and more on his ability to make a phenomenal pass or beat a defender with a little trick and a drop of his shoulder. Minus points for the lamentable new tatts, though. :yuckky:
Still, I look forward telling my children/nephews/nieces/grandchildren/any other future person who'll listen just how lucky we all were to see two of the best players ever push each other to greater heights each year.
I'm drawing a bit of a blank on the gif thing, if I'm honest. Folks who make them must be around here somewhere because we have so many members who always, without fail, have the most wonderful animated avis and sigs, but I'm struggling to come up with any names for you at the moment.
Have you checked out MGS5 as of late? I had speeded through the story, which is actually quite short.
My conclusion is that the gameplay is excellent (but somewhat repetitive) but the overlying story (besides communication Snake and Kaz) is very weak and feels like any other game story. The ending is truly hideous. It also seems that the game and its story has been heavily tampered with. Kojima does not feel like an auteur in this one- the impression I get is that he has been heavily edited from the creative process and the result is a high degree of staleness in the story/character aspects.
As a fan of the MGS stories it was quite disappointing to see this. I'm just going to pretend that it's not canon.
Kojima- once the executive VP- has actually been fired from Konami after this game (it is cited in the press that it has to do with "silent hill"). I think it's probably something more to do with MGS5!
Have you checked out MGS5 as of late? I had speeded through the story, which is actually quite short.
My conclusion is that the gameplay is excellent (but somewhat repetitive) but the overlying story (besides communication Snake and Kaz) is very weak and feels like any other game story. The ending is truly hideous. It also seems that the game and its story has been heavily tampered with. Kojima does not feel like an auteur in this one- the impression I get is that he has been heavily edited from the creative process and the result is a high degree of staleness in the story/character aspects.
As a fan of the MGS stories it was quite disappointing to see this. I'm just going to pretend that it's not canon.
Kojima- once the executive VP- has actually been fired from Konami after this game (it is cited in the press that it has to do with "silent hill"). I think it's probably something more to do with MGS5!
Up to now, I've not done any more than read a few reviews. When I do eventually invest in a PS4, I'm going to be so behind the times.
From what I've heard, MGS5 is like an open-ended business sim at heart. You're basically a hands-on chief executive at a company building an army to carry out missions for you, with the main story told via the player's choices. Konami appears to have panicked at how long the game took to arrive and how expensive it was to make, supposedly cutting Kojima and his team out of future projects as a result. I suppose to be fair, there are surely only a handful of financial backers in the world who would be willing or even able to finance a video game project on this kind of scale. 
The game itself is quite good-it's like a next generation, open world MGS3 in different environments. The base building is interesting. But I am just stunned at how bad and un-metal gear like the story is (it's call of duty:black ops caliber). The hideous final ending resembles bad fan-fiction and is basically trolling.
It does feel as if he was forced to "play it safe" and allocate resources mainly to level design rather than characters/story.
The reviews, which are high- are unfathomable to me if they take the story rather than just the gameplay into account.
The game itself is quite good-it's like a next generation, open world MGS3 in different environments. The base building is interesting. But I am just stunned at how bad and un-metal gear like the story is (it's call of duty:black ops caliber). The hideous final ending resembles bad fan-fiction and is basically trolling.
It does feel as if he was forced to "play it safe" and allocate resources mainly to level design rather than characters/story.
The reviews, which are high- are unfathomable to me if they take the story rather than just the gameplay into account.
I've been trying to avoid reading too much about the actual story, so I couldn't say for sure, but I do wonder if it's going to be a precursor to Outer Heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if they left room for another story between the events of MGS5 and the original Metal Gear, which could make it a little bit too tempting to make 'just one more' sequel. The reviews mostly praise Kojima and his team for showing restraint with the story, which I suppose, given his past excesses and struggles to fit all his wacky ideas into each game's structure, could end up being a refreshing change of pace for a lot of the fans. I personally enjoy Kojima's epic/preposterous story arcs so much that I'm usually willing to overlook his eccentricities - to me, it's not a Metal Gear game without a long, drawn-out storyline that leaves you scratching your head afterwards. 
I must say though, I really like the return of the Mother Base from 'Peace Walker'. It was fun to build at the time, and it sounds like MGS5 has really expanded on the idea, removing some of the disappointing limitations like not being able to explore it. Hopefully, you can still build your own Metal Gear too.
Michael,
I already know the story so I am trying to avoid giving you spoilers. I don't think what I'm saying is too much-if it is, tell me.
This game is structured very differently from the other MGS. First off- the core story is very short, very simple, and the cut-scenes, related to the story are also short. There are few characters and they don't say much. It's a story that can be economically told in half an hour of cutscenes. That's how shockingly simple it is (esp. for Kojima) and it reminds me of the type of story that a throwaway game has. The few major characters that are introduced (quiet, code talker, skull) have extremely minimal background given to them- completely unlike what a MGS character should be.
The core story is basically a quite stale "black ops" story (characters that help you, the villain). Then there are loosely related side quests that have their own lore, but nothing really substantial as what I've seen so far. Most of the dialogue is in the form of radio conversations between Kaz, Ocelot, and Snake about mission objectives and so forth (like mei ling from mgs1). This game is a major shift from storytelling to more focus on gameplay. Most of the "story" , outside of the core one- is just an excuse to do Big Boss missions.
On a far lessor note (I'm talking about a couple of minutes of plot- referring to the hideous ending) MGS5 can be seen as a way Kojima tried to connect MGS:Ground Zeroes (which had some connection to Peace Walker) to MG1 and MGS1. There are also a few traces of "young" versions of the characters. I'm sure that you know that liquid snake and psycho mantis as children are in the game. And both of them are given only a little story- the latter almost nothing at all.
I'll be trawling and listening to most of the dialog this weekend and next week. I will comment on that later.
I've been trying to avoid reading too much about the actual story, so I couldn't say for sure, but I do wonder if it's going to be a precursor to Outer Heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if they left room for another story between the events of MGS5 and the original Metal Gear, which could make it a little bit too tempting to make 'just one more' sequel. The reviews mostly praise Kojima and his team for showing restraint with the story, which I suppose, given his past excesses and struggles to fit all his wacky ideas into each game's structure, could end up being a refreshing change of pace for a lot of the fans. I personally enjoy Kojima's epic/preposterous story arcs so much that I'm usually willing to overlook his eccentricities - to me, it's not a Metal Gear game without a long, drawn-out storyline that leaves you scratching your head afterwards.
I must say though, I really like the return of the Mother Base from 'Peace Walker'. It was fun to build at the time, and it sounds like MGS5 has really expanded on the idea, removing some of the disappointing limitations like not being able to explore it. Hopefully, you can still build your own Metal Gear too.
This to me, shows that the reviewers have poor taste- they want call of duty black ops type of tom clancy crap story, not metal gear solid and a very bizarre, complex story that really sticks to you. 
Over time, I am certainly suspicious of the objectivity of some blue chip reviewers such as 'gamespot'- they repeatedly give COD games high scores even though they're quite bad. I thought the MGS4 story was bloated but the first three MGS stories were something special and enduring- excesses aside. I think that the first one had the most elegant story.
If there are future Metal Gears, I suspect that there will be a re-make of Metal Gear One.
BTW, what do you think about Quiet? Besides the terrible 'costume', she is ok physically but they chose quite a bad face. (just a plain jane-zero charisma. she's no beauty). She doesn't look athletic enough to be an assassin.
***Edit. It appears that there could be other "endings" or related content in this game. This one is triggered at a low "percentage" of completion. When someone gets 100%, I'll find out.
I saw most of the major dialogue parts and have a general picture of the environments that complement the cutscenes. It's not long, either. There are two types of maps: Africa and Afghanistan. The rest does make it better but not by much. The characters and story are still weak although there are amusing things here and there. Keifer's Venom Snake is no where as good as Hayter. (he barely talks and says anything of substance- and he always sounds sad). What stands out is how nobody is likable in this one and the tone is of depression. Kaz is the best character to me (with the best voice actor) but he's also an angry a$$hole all the time.
*the iconic MGS style music is also conspicuously missing.
Second, in looking up more it is clear that development had issues. The "chapter 2" of the game is actually mostly composed of the same maps as chapter 1 but with modifications. (It looks like they were trying to bloat the content). The ending of the game is also very abrupt and gives the impression that it was tacked on. There was not much build up to it- as if they got "this far" into designing the game but restrictions forced them to find a pathway to closure.
Also, Kojima has obviously seen 9 Rota and Rambo III. 
For my terms, the saga been this:
MGS1: Classic/5
MGS2: 5/5
MGS3: 5/5
MGS4: 4.5/5
MGS5: 3/5
Until there are other news in the coming months, I'm going to assume that the Kojima arc is over. His team did something special here over the past 20 years- something with cultural significance in the genre. 
On 9/5/2015 at 6:32 AM, Cult Icon said:Michael,
I already know the story so I am trying to avoid giving you spoilers. I don't think what I'm saying is too much-if it is, tell me.
This game is structured very differently from the other MGS. First off- the core story is very short, very simple, and the cut-scenes, related to the story are also short. There are few characters and they don't say much. It's a story that can be economically told in half an hour of cutscenes. That's how shockingly simple it is (esp. for Kojima) and it reminds me of the type of story that a throwaway game has. The few major characters that are introduced (quiet, code talker, skull) have extremely minimal background given to them- completely unlike what a MGS character should be.
The core story is basically a quite stale "black ops" story (characters that help you, the villain). Then there are loosely related side quests that have their own lore, but nothing really substantial as what I've seen so far. Most of the dialogue is in the form of radio conversations between Kaz, Ocelot, and Snake about mission objectives and so forth (like mei ling from mgs1). This game is a major shift from storytelling to more focus on gameplay. Most of the "story" , outside of the core one- is just an excuse to do Big Boss missions.
On a far lessor note (I'm talking about a couple of minutes of plot- referring to the hideous ending) MGS5 can be seen as a way Kojima tried to connect MGS:Ground Zeroes (which had some connection to Peace Walker) to MG1 and MGS1. There are also a few traces of "young" versions of the characters. I'm sure that you know that liquid snake and psycho mantis as children are in the game. And both of them are given only a little story- the latter almost nothing at all.
I'll be trawling and listening to most of the dialog this weekend and next week. I will comment on that later.
On 9/4/2015 at 6:01 PM, Michael* said:
I've been trying to avoid reading too much about the actual story, so I couldn't say for sure, but I do wonder if it's going to be a precursor to Outer Heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if they left room for another story between the events of MGS5 and the original Metal Gear, which could make it a little bit too tempting to make 'just one more' sequel. The reviews mostly praise Kojima and his team for showing restraint with the story, which I suppose, given his past excesses and struggles to fit all his wacky ideas into each game's structure, could end up being a refreshing change of pace for a lot of the fans. I personally enjoy Kojima's epic/preposterous story arcs so much that I'm usually willing to overlook his eccentricities - to me, it's not a Metal Gear game without a long, drawn-out storyline that leaves you scratching your head afterwards.
I must say though, I really like the return of the Mother Base from 'Peace Walker'. It was fun to build at the time, and it sounds like MGS5 has really expanded on the idea, removing some of the disappointing limitations like not being able to explore it. Hopefully, you can still build your own Metal Gear too.
This to me, shows that the reviewers have poor taste- they want call of duty black ops type of tom clancy crap story, not metal gear solid and a very bizarre, complex story that really sticks to you.
Over time, I am certainly suspicious of the objectivity of some blue chip reviewers such as 'gamespot'- they repeatedly give COD games high scores even though they're quite bad. I thought the MGS4 story was bloated but the first three MGS stories were something special and enduring- excesses aside. I think that the first one had the most elegant story.
If there are future Metal Gears, I suspect that there will be a re-make of Metal Gear One.
BTW, what do you think about Quiet? Besides the terrible 'costume', she is ok physically but they chose quite a bad face. (just a plain jane-zero charisma. she's no beauty). She doesn't look athletic enough to be an assassin.
***Edit. It appears that there could be other "endings" or related content in this game. This one is triggered at a low "percentage" of completion. When someone gets 100%, I'll find out.
I think you've pitched it just right, there's nothing there that I wouldn't expect to see in a review. 
One of the more interesting observations I've seen up to now is that it's an excellent game in its own right but a bad MGS game. On the evidence I have so far, that's a difficult statement to disagree with. I guess I would say that though, I'm of the opinion that if you can't describe the plot to someone who hasn't played the game before without sounding like you've gone insane, it's not really MGS at all. Thinking back, you'd probably have to say MGS4 was the worst for that, with its hour-long cutscenes between every section, but it was just so crammed with history and evocative moments that as a longtime fan of the series, I couldn't help but be awestruck. I seem to remember, there were some pretty intriguing theories about why it ended up being so bloated, mainly that Kojima was so sick of MGS at the time that all he really wanted to do was kill off the story, so he used an unbelievable amount of time and resources to tie up all the loose ends and lock up every plot strand.
I must say though, I'm still looking forward to sampling the gameplay. I remember watching preview videos from E3 where an 'expert' showed how to play through each mission in five or six vastly different ways. Admittedly, if you're looking for a pure stealth approach (I've always enjoyed stealth games rather than COD-style shooters. I prefer planning and execution, rather than the 'spray and pray' approach) then that might whittle it down to one or two, but it still sounds quite impressive. I suppose I'll only find out for certain when I eventually get around to actually trying it.
I don't really know much about Quiet's character yet, and have only seen her in pictures so far. I was vaguely aware that her appearance had caused a bit of a stir, and made fans wonder what the heck Kojima was thinking. Apparently, old Hideo swore up and down at the time that there would be a perfectly logical explanation for her choice of apparel, and one that would make everyone eat their words afterwards, although what that actually turned out to be, I've no idea. Not even sure if he made good on delivering the explanation, come to think of it. 
I've already skimmed though most of the main missions already. In terms of gameplay, every map is like Ground Zeroes' map in playstyle and size. Also, a lot of missions are the same ones re-used....there is a lot of padding going on.
So it's not open world in the way GTA or Fallout is.
From a viewer's perspective, it looks fun but not exceedingly. I can't say for sure as I am only a viewer who trawls. One of the traits of open world (vs. linear) is the lack of "cinematic/triggered" events, puzzles, and tactical density. Unlike MGS4, there are very few bosses in the game and almost all the enemies are the vanilla human. Tanks, droids, helicopters, skulls only make few and mostly scripted appearances. This makes Phantom Pain starkly different from MGS4 and more like far cry. It also involves a lot of traveling from point A to point B (with the horse, walker droid, or vehicle). The youtube player I viewed also tended to take shortcuts and would finish most missions in 15-25 minutes.
I saw most of the major dialogue parts and have a general picture of the environments that complement the cutscenes. It's not long, either. There are two types of maps: Africa and Afghanistan. The rest does make it better but not by much. The characters and story are still weak although there are amusing things here and there. Keifer's Venom Snake is no where as good as Hayter. (he barely talks and says anything of substance- and he always sounds sad). What stands out is how nobody is likable in this one and the tone is of depression. Kaz is the best character to me (with the best voice actor) but he's also an angry a$$hole all the time.
*the iconic MGS style music is also conspicuously missing.
Second, in looking up more it is clear that development had issues. The "chapter 2" of the game is actually mostly composed of the same maps as chapter 1 but with modifications. (It looks like they were trying to bloat the content). The ending of the game is also very abrupt and gives the impression that it was tacked on. There was not much build up to it- as if they got "this far" into designing the game but restrictions forced them to find a pathway to closure.
Also, Kojima has obviously seen 9 Rota and Rambo III.
For my terms, the saga been this:
MGS1: Classic/5
MGS2: 5/5
MGS3: 5/5
MGS4: 4.5/5
MGS5: 3/5
Until there are other news in the coming months, I'm going to assume that the Kojima arc is over. His team did something special here over the past 20 years- something with cultural significance in the genre.
Kiefer Sutherland taking over as the voice of Snake left me pretty bemused at the time, although David Hayter's performances did become quite exaggerated over the course of the series. It's funny how much more natural his voice sounds in MGS1 than in MGS4. He always had that sort of uniquely cartoonish style, which was well suited to Kojima’s brutally uncompromising and occasionally campy way of writing, but somewhere along the line, I thought his delivery just became that little bit too affected. Saying that, he still had a much better understanding of the material than Sutherland does. Most of the time, it just seems jarring when you hear a famous actor in a video game, especially one with such a strong link to a well-known character. I remember years ago he had a fairly prominent role in some other game (the title of which is escaping me at the moment), and it was quite distracting then too.
It was a shame the way Konami cut Kojima's team out of future projects. I'm not annoyed that they were let go, rather the way in which Konami has broadcasted it all to the public. Free reign or not, Kojima has kept the company relevant in the gaming industry, especially in the west where trends have veered away from arcade-style stuff. Wherever he ends up and whatever he ends up making next, I'll be first in line to gawk at.
Yeah, good point. I thought Hayter's lung cancer voice acting was exaggerated in MGS4 (kind of like Bale with the Batman voice by the third movie). The guy who played liquid ocelot went too far as well.
Keifer's voice acting sounds sad/bored most of the time and he says little. His Venom Snake is also a quiet person. (like for instance, in a scene where Ocelot, Code Talker and Huey are exchanging, he'll say just a phrase or one sentence) It is also quite monotone compared to Hayter. Hayter was low pitched but it had gravitas & emphasis. Venom snake does not have much of a personality or gets much development here by Kojima- in stark contrast to prior metal gears.
That being said, Venom Snake has the more "bada$$" physical appearance out of all metal gear snakes. He also has the ugliest scars. Eyepatch, scarface, samurai hair, battle suits, robot arm. He also seems more muscular and larger than the other snakes after his recovery from the coma. Then, there's the dog (which really doesn't do that much- helps but is more cool than helps):
In prior metal gears, I always thought the design of the snake costumes was too lightly equipped. Here, he is more heavily equipped.
Another thing: Ocelot, who is "EVIL"/crafty in the other gears is a helpful "Nice Guy!" here. His personality is completely at odds with the other metal gears- as if he is entirely different character. His voice actor also has a regional american accent which is completely odd. Huey's character also completely at odds.
I haven't been following on Kojima rumors so I don't know what's next.
===============
this is an important bit that was cut from the game (mega spoilers, don't click now):
I suppose the variation on Ocelot's character in MGS5 is at least partially in keeping with what Eva/Big Mama told Snake in MGS4 - that Ocelot was essentially still fighting to carry out Big Boss's mission and that his idolisation of the man was tantamount to that of a full-blown fanboy.
Also, I was surprised to read that Big Boss's codename was Venom Snake, as I remember hearing a while back that he was going to be known as Punished Snake instead. Obviously, Venom is a better representation of what Big Boss has become, he's more bitter and twisted than before and capable of inflicting more damage than ever. It reflects the idea of a more dangerous character, one that can inspire dread and awe to his enemies and allies. Kojima has never been particularly original when naming his characters, but it seems to have worked for him over the years.
Ocelot is the one who took out his eye in MGS3- the twist of him working with him is a bit odd. He was also a full blown psychopath in MGS3, MGS1, MGS2, MGS4
Sorry Michael, but Venom Snake is not portrayed as descending into evil or particularly bitter for the most part. That's how flat the characterization is. He's doing jobs, and many of them lead to 'seeing' bad things but this is par for the course in metal gear .
I'm a bit sad about that, then.
My hope was that the game would explore at least some of the period (taking place somewhere between MGS3 and MGS1) when Big Boss supposedly found out he'd been used by the Patriots, became radicalised, built an army of mercenaries and basically threatened to nuke the world. If that's not the case and MGS5 doesn't act as a precursor to Outer Heaven, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're intentionally leaving room to sneak another story in between the events of MGS5 and the original Metal Gear. In other words, they may have found it that little bit too tempting to leave things open for 'just one more' sequel. Which, I must say, I'd be okay with. As long as they're done right, I'd welcome the chance to keep playing MGS games for as long as Kojima wants to make them.
You, mean, Metal Gear 1?- Sadly, there is so little story here- that's why I feel like Kojima was tightly restricted in development. I watched a bit of MGS4 recently (pretty much everything with Ocelot is gold) and the differences in story substance is stark. By combing out Kojima's excesses they also combed out the interesting story elements that made MG what it was.
MGS5 does not show any real link to Outer heaven except for a two minute clip that has a minor easter egg. It ends abruptly- like the game was only partially finished. It was in fact- which shows. Venom Snake is not depicted as being radicalized. He does, however have a tragedy (shown in the trailer, in fact- with the graves of his men so it's not technically a spoiler...) but this is not shown as leading to particular changes in behavior. The game ends in an abrupt manner and with a whimper, really. There's not much build up and I suspect that people who play it will be surprised when it comes.
Yes, there is clearly a lot of room between MGS5 and Outer Heaven. If they make a new game, they could either make something in-between (where Venom Snake is radicalized) or jump directly into Outer Heaven (which should lead to a drastic change in the characterization of Venom Snake).
Yeah, the original Metal Gear game on the old NES system.
I'd like to think that's where they'd go with it, although in fairness, I thought that about this game too. A storyline in which Snake makes the slow, emotional transition to the 'evil' Big Boss as he seeks revenge against the Patriots should be relatively easy to get right. To be honest, I'm still hankering after a remake of the original Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 (using the MGS5 engine) too, I just can't help thinking what a great moment it would be to finally see that showdown between Big Boss and Solid Snake in all its glory.
That would be have been perfect (it appears that this was the way the game was marketed). However, that doesn't happen.
A great potential of MGS5 was to show Mother Base evolve or somehow get linked to the creation of Outer Heaven, and then Outer Heaven's revolt & the defeat of Venom Snake there. Meanwhile, Big Boss becomes more and more ruthless in his methods. Solidus is supposed to be a perfect clone of Big Boss. It would be interesting to see Big Boss become like solidus (ruthless, scheming).
I am completely unaware of Big Boss' character in metal gear 1. Was he ever evil, anyway? According to the Canon, he is supposed to have become ruthless and driven to destroy the Patriots by making Outer Heaven. However, this is not shown at all in MGS5.
Metal Gear 1 and 2 should definitely be remade. It could be fantastic but it needs the right team and creative direction.
highlights of MGS4 for me:
why did Ocelot fight Snake in the end? For sport? I know that the twist is that Snake didn't kill him- it was Foxdie.
A lot of the fans would have missed out on it because the old games were fairly overlooked at that time, but Big Boss was more or less established as an irredeemable villain by the events of Metal Gear 2. He oversaw the so-called 'Fortress Nation' of Zanzibar Land (a second incarnation of Outer Heaven) and, at a time when nuclear weaponry had supposedly been abandoned altogether, took control of a number of warheads and basically held the world at gunpoint. Towards the end of the game, he freely admits to Solid Snake that he just enjoys war. Plus, Zanzibar Land's forces were mostly comprised of 'war orphans', and as Big Boss describes it in the game (probably paraphrasing a little), those war orphans kill more parents so there are then more war orphans to feed into his machine.
With all that said, I'm not sure I fully consider MG1 and 2 as canon these days, or that turning Big Boss into the out-and-out monster he was in those games would sound like something the Kojima of today would be keen to do. He'd probably now consider Big Boss to be more complex than that, like the majority of characters in the MGS saga. You can never really boil any specific person down into good or evil, which was always one of the things I liked most about the series. Even a guy like Volgin, who was probably one of the story's biggest 'pantomime' villains, wanted to reunite the Philosophers and end the Cold War.
It's been a while since I last had a look at it (Snake Eater is the only game in the series that I never went back to after completing) but I remember taking a lot of Ocelot's MGS4 stuff as something of a callback to the events of MGS3 at the time. Ocelot did everything in the name of his hero Big Boss, and in order to destroy the Patriots had to destroy himself, while also letting someone else take credit for what happened - much like his mother The Boss and Naked Snake/Big Boss before him. Ocelot was probably the most difficult character to work out and was always surrounded by more questions than answers, but for me, him playing a part makes more sense than him being possessed by Liquid, which even by Metal Gear standards bordered on silly. I think Kojima (who supposedly regretted killing off Liquid so quickly in MGS1) may have written it that way on purpose though, because it probably would have been even more confusing for Ocelot to have delivered that first monologue in his own voice.
That is very interesting. I checked and I found the script for metal gear 2 (extremely short!). It looks like Big Boss says the exact same things that Liquid Snake says at the end of MGS.
There is no evidence that Big Boss turns into a 'monster' or planning to become a monster in MGS4. It is simply not shown. You're right- I doubt that MG1 and MG2 can really be considered canon outside of some very broad strokes. The script for MG2 is very primitive.
in order to destroy the Patriots had to destroy himself, while also letting someone else take credit for what happened - much like his mother The Boss and Naked Snake/Big Boss before him.
I remember seeing the liquid arm for the first time in MGS2 and muttering: "this is so f*cking stupid!". It does seem though, that as the series went on the bosses became more and more supernatural.
So you're saying that he's trying to "ape" Big Boss (some kind of fanatic obsession?) In the final fight, he says that 'the war is over' but we still have a score to settle- It makes no sense to me. What "score" with solid snake?
To me the score was possibly his desire to prove that he could outfight solid- just for the sake of fighting. He was defeated in the past by solid. It was sportmanship. It would fit with his nutbar , russian roulette character in MGS3. It would fit with the war-loving world he wanted to create.