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What I hope you've learned since our last discussion on the subject. I will raise your warning meter if you didn't do your homework. j/k .

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- The difference between simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. The difference is a matter of scientific fact and chemistry rather than opinion.

- The fact that meat is not necessary to meat any protein requirement, regardless of what that protein requirement is. This isn't to say whether one should or shouldn't use it though.

- Canned beans cause digestion problems for some due to the fact that they're been a) given enough preservatives to be able to sit on a factory shelf for several months and b) are often

mixed with other things such as meat, meat fat, lard ect. All of which require different digestive mediums from legumes. Though ironically, meat is the most difficult food for the human body to digest individually because humans don't have the long sharp teeth and acidic digestive system of carnivores.

- Being a medical doctor doesn't make you an expert in nutrition. Not only are all medical doctors not experts in nutrition, but many American medical schools don't even require nutrition courses at all. On top of that, many highly respected doctors are constantly quoted as saying they can't believe that they believed some of the myths they've been taught about nutrition well into their practice. Of course, even being a brain surgeon doesn't make you an expert in cardiology or a cardiologist a brain surgeon. Nutrition is an extensive field within itself.

- The vast majority of popular health beliefs are rooted in the industries that sell the foods rather than actual scientific research and facts. As a a matter of fact, a lot of commonly

believed health concepts have been scientifically disproven by countless studies and experiments for many years now or are based on long discredited experiments on rats from several decades ago.

- Protein deficiency is almost unheard of in most developed nations, especially America. As a matter of fact, I've spoken with several doctors that say that they've yet to even encounter a

homeless American with a protein deficiency . It is primarily a problem in very poor countries where people are simply malnourished as a whole.

- According to the USDA, FDA, WHO and several others, there's actually far and away more people (outside of the impoverished in developing countries) consuming too much protein than those not consuming enough. The government recommendation is 0.8 x one's weight in kg (lbs for a high protein diet) and most Americans actually far exceed that. Excess protein puts strain on the kidneys and cannot be utilized by the body. Too much animal protein in particular also blocks calcium absorption as well (which is why vegetarians have been shown to have the lowest cases of osteoporosis). You would be hard pressed to consume 1,000-2,000 calories and not get enough protein. There are several more important deficiencies to worry about.

- Organic is not a 'craze.' If anything, inorganic is the craze seeing as how its only been around for a few decades vs. the rest of human history. Some of the pesticide residue of

inorganic vegetables can actually be washed off by an additive free soap though. Eating fruits and vegetables is a great thing to do in any case though .

Although I've read hundreds of books and articles on nutrition health, I'd be glad to give sources to anything in question since this isn't an essay though .

I'd rather ride trains than drive, that's for sure. The US is a very big country, so it's difficult to establish light rail or rail that's as convenient as those in smaller countries. I'd rather ride modern, faster trains than older ones.

I'm usually doing stuff while I'm riding a train.

Same here I love to read books while in train, sometimes look out of the window to enjoy the view. I´ve actually heard about train trips and vacation on trains which sounded amazing - but I can´t really imagine being on train for so long, I much rather walk on my own.

I actually did two small 2-hour long trips during weekend (we could not go to the cottage because fl was in work) - in my surrounding there is a forest and lots of vineyards - and lots of paths where to go it was wonderful, I even encountered a rat snake, that was enjoyable moment. I took a pic of her All in all, it were two wonderful walks, but I slightly burned my shoulders I did not realize the sun was so strong already.

Most have 2 or 3 children per household.

Same here

I didn't check the site that thoroughly, but the businessman/trained accountant/investor/ world economic history buff but nonscientist in me would probably agree with most of the salient agenda. That's why I believe that the future is not under this threat.

I thought you would say something like this like year ago I was pretty convinced about the over-population, but these new data are slowly putting more light into the whole problem. It was very informative to actually learn the other side of the problem, a different view on it. I am thankful for it. The logic is unquestionable - if the tendency of the birth rate continues in the same path as it is now, the overpopulation will not be a problem. There are always other problems, of course. But some good, logical points were made there that I wholy agree with after re-thinking of the whole problem.

But you were the one who spun the conversation off into an entirely new thread? Didn't seem necessary..

What I hope you've learned since our last discussion on the subject. I will raise your warning meter if you didn't do your homework. j/k .

Although I've read hundreds of books and articles on nutrition health, I'd be glad to give sources to anything in question since this isn't an essay though .

And I got 'A's in nutrition and biology in secondary school... I agree and know the greater half of the things you've posted already (and have not taken positions contrary to most of them). The land of nonscience and pseudo-science is open and obvious at GMC, sports nutrition, & Whole Foods ....

The other stuff I'm not in full agreement but that's that- no big deal. I still inclined consider much of 'Organic' to be an attempt to rejuvenate agricultural industries with marketing/experiential innovation (a sales proposition occurs mostly in the mind) buffered by a lot of literary polemic/packaged claims rather than real science. So my view of biotech corporations like Monsanto is not negative.

But overall, I'm not really passionate about this and I don't hold strong convictions. I still need more credibility if you want me to treat you like an infallible expert- for instance you have never posted sources or say, that you earned qualifications in nutrition sciences, worked in the field, etc. I have medical professionals in my family and my contacts. My uncle, a very experienced general practitioner, is educated in nutrition, actually. I briefly covered medical devices companies in an old job. Even as a layman...It's quite serious stuff to me and an agiprop article on Huffington Post is not enough.

With technical and scientific subjects, I need proof of domain specialization, technical skills, operating experience and sources before I consider intaking any serious new views. This is different than a liberal arts discussion subject such as economics, art, politics, sociology, literature, movies, history, models, or whatever. (I prefer talking about these things here)

I don't recall APA or MLA format for the bold claims made on either side of the original discussion, but assumed it was due to the length of the posts rather than negligence . As to me, my credentials in agriculture come from a lifetime of working in agriculture and having been involved in pretty much every aspect of the process and currently growing, selling and donating produce. This isn't to say that produce has to have an organic labeling to be organic. Some are organic without an organic labeling but simply can't afford the expensive testing. The ideal thing to do is to simply grow crops and not spray them with chemicals. This (not for large scale business, but for at least to feed a few) can be done even in a one bedroom apartment porch or windowsill. Meat and dairy producers can more afford the testing however because they get far more government subsidies than for produce by far. My education is in the medical field as I took that up after the sports thing didn't work out due to injury (which has since been healed though). I somehow doubt that my credentials have anything to do with it though as I suspect you've already heard it from people with certification before as there were no cutting edge breakthroughs discussed here by any means. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find any book or article by a doctor on the subject published in the last few years that doesn't recommend organic animal foods especially to animal food consumers any more than you could find one that doesn't say animal foods are the best source of Vitamin B12 or that high temperatures kill enzymes. Either way, my goal was never to convince you based on who I was as people blindly believing disproven science based on the fact that a doctor said it was the theme to start with. I never wanted you to believe anything because I said it, but to investigate on your own. Overall though, there just isn't as much money in prevention compared to solving (or attempting to solve). Just ten years ago, there were actual licensed doctors telling the public that cow's milk (and pasteurized at that) was necessary to grow big and strong. This is widely known to be false now (though still widely believed like the myths about carbs and protein), but had been already disproven by countless experiments decades ago. Thus, unfortunately with nutrition science, myths are very profitable even when disproven by science. I like discussing the arts too but figured I'd at least check on the status of your views seeing as how no one else posted in the health thread anyway . Like the milk thing though, it will be interesting to see how we look back on this generation. I can send you sources of specific books and journals seeing as how I can't advertise medical books and journals on the forum here. You'll be hard pressed to find a medical nutrition medical journal published in the past five years that doesn't emphasize those things though. As to those currently provided, I don't think the USDA (U.S, Department of Agriculture), FDA and WHO (World Health Organization) would take kindly to be called non authorities . This isn't a knock on you personally though and go forth and enjoy the liberal arts, and sorry to take up so much space. The point off all this however is not to agree with something because someone said it, but to take everything you know about nutrition regardless of who said it and challenge it with research on the current findings and an open mind, that's all.

I don't recall APA or MLA format for the bold claims made on either side of the original discussion, but assumed it was due to the length of the posts rather than negligence . As to me, my credentials in agriculture come from a lifetime of working in agriculture and having been involved in pretty much every aspect of the process and currently growing, selling and donating produce.

Yes, you are a farmer but this doesn't make you technically trained on nutrition and life sciences and a medical professional. I got much of my advice from people who are more credible than you in doling advice on nutrition. (just like you are more credible than them about growing vegetables). So you've spent some time saying that they are worthless in this area and they are understating the 'threat'..

I also had difficulty separating the 'nature-made' politics from the claims of 'non- partisan science' in your posts due to the way your posts resembled proselytizing. I need/expected more scientific explanations- eg. the type that a dietitian would make rather than saying 'this is proven' without saying the source. And choices of sources can often be slanted anyway- academics often produce studies (funded by self interested entities) just to promote a certain view, and propaganda writers selectively cite them to back up their agenda.

Also, like in other fields, I suspect that nutrition is subject to a lot of politics (bureaucratic, academic, and private sector) and organizations all have a professed 'ideology' so promoting a lifestyle that doubles a consumer's grocery costs is already suspicious to me.

So the fact that you are farmer in organic produce makes your positions appear even more partisan as professionals in all fields tend to seek out ethical and ideological justifications in order to boost their self esteem (sorry, it's just something I've noticed. I had attempted something similar myself, but eventually I got over it).

Last year, I suffered an acquaintance with a geophysicist who in his personal time took this to an extreme- for instance, a big part of his worldview is the idea that the 'whole economy of the US and future growth trajectory' revolves almost solely around fossil fuels, and he spent much of his free time maintaining a blog that tried to disprove global warming and denigrating green energy/politicians/organizations that base their activities around it. In his worldview, the oil industry was a national treasure, incapable of fault; and the invasion of Iraq was worth the cost. And of course, by the very action of working for exploration company, he was some sort of soldier for America and a pseudo-hero.

I can send you sources of specific books and journals seeing as how I can't advertise medical books and journals on the forum here. You'll be hard pressed to find a medical nutrition medical journal published in the past five years that doesn't emphasize those things though. As to those currently provided,

A list of sources, rather than many appeals to authority, would really help advance this discussion.

Anyway, I thank you for posting but there is not much I am capable of adding to this subject.

Newsflash:

I am hosting a Dewi Driegen + top 9 models of the month series of galleries on the Junkyard! I have two more of Dewi already made and I think I have enough for two more for the others.

http://www.bellazon.com/main/topic/44606-cult-icons-junkyard/page__st__320#entry3181293

Sanja[member here]asked me yesterday about some pics of Dewi that were posted in my catalog thread,I couldn't specify them as I don't know her face at all, http://www.bellazon.com/main/topic/43892-catalog-fashion/page__st__480 I've just checked your Dewi's contribution there,and tbh,I'm still so confused ,I didn't come across her in any catalog,I'm waiting for Sanja's reply,and to tell you thank you and thanx Sanja for letting me know about this stunning girl,I'm liking her,still waiting for your conts to be more familiar with her,not going check her thread or google her.

"Anyway, I thank you for posting but there is not much I am capable of adding to this subject."

Then I won't add anything, but only give one more response only to your comments.

Yes, you are a farmer but this doesn't make you technically trained on nutrition and life sciences and a medical professional.

I posted a few galleries and comments. What do you (or anybody who's reading this) think?

She wasn't SB, Jennka, or Don's sort of thing

Sanja[member here]asked me yesterday about some pics of Dewi that were posted in my catalog thread,I couldn't specify them as I don't know her face at all, http://www.bellazon....n/page__st__480 I've just checked your Dewi's contribution there,and tbh,I'm still so confused ,I didn't come across her in any catalog,I'm waiting for Sanja's reply,and to tell you thank you and thanx Sanja for letting me know about this stunning girl,I'm liking her,still waiting for your conts to be more familiar with her,not going check her thread or google her.

You make traveling on trains sound like a Miyazaki film... Would you prefer to go on a cruise?

Same here I love to read books while in train, sometimes look out of the window to enjoy the view. I´ve actually heard about train trips and vacation on trains which sounded amazing - but I can´t really imagine being on train for so long, I much rather walk on my own.

How about a road trip? I've done many.

I actually did two small 2-hour long trips during weekend (we could not go to the cottage because fl was in work) - in my surrounding there is a forest and lots of vineyards - and lots of paths where to go it was wonderful, I even encountered a rat snake, that was enjoyable moment. I took a pic of her All in all, it were two wonderful walks, but I slightly burned my shoulders I did not realize the sun was so strong already.

That's very nice. You know, I never told you this before, but my parents, in their late years, are doing what you are doing for some reason. My mother writes for a newspaper, blogs a lot, collects many photos, and usually gets one or two articles a month published about experiential situations that are a product of their weekends.

I've never gone with them on their trips, but from what I've heard, they travel every weekend to different places in the US and visit a lot of the public parks & just about everything. They've been doing this for years.

I thought you would say something like this like year ago I was pretty convinced about the over-population, but these new data are slowly putting more light into the whole problem. It was very informative to actually learn the other side of the problem, a different view on it. I am thankful for it. The logic is unquestionable - if the tendency of the birth rate continues in the same path as it is now, the overpopulation will not be a problem. There are always other problems, of course. But some good, logical points were made there that I wholy agree with after re-thinking of the whole problem.

^

Demographics has never really been that favorable towards it. The public intellectuals have been more focused on infertility and aging populations these past few years. Important regions like the EU, China, Japan, and the US to a much lesser extent all have aging populations. The other regions, most are developing/ 3rd world, are less important to Northern countries and their domestic policy issues anyway.

The 'population bomb' scare has been popular since the 17th century. Even with a population bomb, there is little a power hungry 'global government', the UN, or some sort of starry-eyed group can do to curb it anyway. Only a communist country like China can socially engineer their population to limit themselves to 1 child families. The actual methods that are used to enforce this (which is another conversation entirely), are rather ugly and completely unfeasible in most countries.

I posted a few galleries and comments. What do you (or anybody who's reading this) think?

She wasn't SB, Jennka, or Don's sort of thing

Not of my type too,but attractive to look at.For me,I like brunettes,dark haired girls more,I like also more tanned-skin ,but in general and as I'm not fan of particular models over other ones,I can like her,she has the height and the perfect body.That what mostly I look at in any model.

BTW,Dewi's contribution 2 is so wonderful.

Has your Karlie fandom by any chance suffered as a result of her new found commercial stardom ? Or rather explosion of BZ popularity rather. On the other hand, Anne V is one of those models like Veronika Verikova, Jessica White, Hilary Rhoda ect. who seem to be much more popular in real life relative to what they are here.

Yea, so like it was said in the PM, that conversation is sufficiently disagreeable to be not worth yours or my time.

You are just going to have to realize that I have reasons for not respecting environmentalism.

Has your Karlie fandom by any chance suffered as a result of her new found commercial stardom ? Or rather explosion of BZ popularity rather. On the other hand, Anne V is one of those models like Veronika Verikova, Jessica White, Hilary Rhoda ect. who seem to be much more popular in real life relative to what they are here.

I lost a big chunk of interest in Karlie on the very day she chopped off her hair. This was on the day of the VS fashion show, and my interest in her modeling has continuously declined to the point where I ignore her BZ thread..........! It's rather ironic, as I was known to her fan on this site..

Hilary Rhoda, Edita V, and Anne V are perennial favorites of mine. So is Marloes to much lesser extent. They and maybe a few others are the only ones that get consistent publication, and consistently do things that are worth seeing.

Frenchkiki told me that she was very 70s/90s to her, and I think that's an apt way of putting it. I think she fills a small niche that isn't done better by any other model.

I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

Beautiful face,,natural beauty,perfect thin legs.

Not of my type too,but attractive to look at.For me,I like brunettes,dark haired girls more,I like also more tanned-skin ,but in general and as I'm not fan of particular models over other ones,I can like her,she has the height and the perfect body.That what mostly I look at in any model.

BTW,Dewi's contribution 2 is so wonderful.

I've always admired Hilary Rhoda's ability to connect with the camera although I was consequently disappointed to see the cosmetics/swimsuit transition as a result. That's not to say that I have a problem with those subgenres, but preferred her in high fashion work. She still sells it though. At first I thought Karlie pulled off the short hair and would probably still think so if that were the first time I saw her, but when looking back at the long hair, I definitely find it preferable. It seemed to have a Eurasian texture to it? Even that commercial I thought she was really nice in probably would have been enhanced by it. Being a man of business, what do you think of Trump in light of the whole reality thing ? I remember admiring him a long time ago when I didn't know anything about him (not that I go out in my way to learn about celebrity personal lives) and even read his books, but now he just seems like a publicity hound much like 'Diddy' to me .

I've only been a model fan for three years, so I never got to see Hilary's earlier stuff. I've commented about her here in the past, but isn't she looking...a lot older..these days? It's a bit odd, as Hilary is only in her mid 20s.

I've seen pictures of Hilary in her earlier days and she is strikingly different looking. !

I thought Karlie's short hair was probably just a phase- her overtreated model hair was probably in need of trimming. But instead, she kept it for a long time and wore wigs when necessary.

Why would you admire Trump? I don't watch TV so I never saw his TV show (the apprentice) but the 'Trump' persona (trump steaks, casinos, resorts, real estate, etc.etc.) is clearly a huge complex systems marketing gambit. In this way, he's like Warren Buffet (Obama's favorite billionaire, League of Patriotic millionaires (or whatever that was called..), american heartland, high ethical standards, folksy wisdom, long term investment..) and the cult personas created around it. However, Trump is involved more in real estate & branding rather than running one of the biggest conglomerates in the world.

Their key advantage is their ability to raise capital. Unlike Buffet (who has a continuously great track record), every time Trump gets bankrupt....he's able to get a consortium of banks and other financing vehicles to extend loans to him and bail him out as if he's a national treasure. As super rich real estate operators go, I don't think he's even in the top 20 or can be considered to have the good return on invested capital. His publicity stunts and reputation helps fuel his ability to raise capital in a manner in which only he & his organizations fully understands.

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Contribution-70- 90 photos "As of Late..."

http://www.bellazon....20#entry3186464

I definitely don't admire him now and he isn't in one of my top celebrity heroes currently . The desire to be the corporate big shot was one of those childhood phases of mine and possibly the shortest lived one. The alchemy and antiquity phases probably lasted longer . Maybe as a country boy, the bright city lights just seemed glamorous at the time. Strangely enough though, its also one of the few phases that has no application to my daily life currently. Even with the law phase, even though I hated the politics of it, I still know the laws. Trump is the opposite of everything I want to be though. Your description sums him up quite well. Maybe its one of those 'what was I thinking' kindof things and the bigger buffoons they become, the worse it is . To tell the truth, even aside from being annoying and pretentious, I don't even find his work interesting at face value. I had no idea she was in her mid 20s . Maybe she has aged or it could be subconscious on my end having seen her for so long. If you've only been into it a few years and notice it, I imagine its tangible then.

I didn't know whether to put this in the junkyard or whether you saw it or not...

I never saw that. Thanks! Hilary looks very noticeably different today than compared to 3 years ago. She looks like she's well in her 30s even though she's in her mid-20s.

'Law phase'? You mean lawyer?

Trump is elite American 'new money' aristocracy. His father was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't consider him a true 'corporate' person like my father (sell one's soul, in the upper-middle class- lower-upper class sort of way) for reasons being that he was born with great wealth, and titles were bequeathed to him by birth. So his problem, when coming of age, was to figure out how to spend and expand his entitlement.....! So he was always royalty. So he was no role model for kids unless their mom & dad were worth 11-9 figures.

At his level, he spends most of his time talking strategy, making generalized decisions, and doing deals.

There's something remarkably throwback ( '1980s'/'Masters of the Universe') and tacky about his personal style/branding.

Yeah, law as in lawyer, but I was never formally educated in it. When I was a kid, I wanted to be like one of my cousins who was a lawyer. They let me read their books and terminology dictionaries, but when they lost a case due to a technicality, I was discouraged from that path. The person was obviously guilty and later even confessed, but they attained the evidence without a warrant. Then the next one got off by making a deal to give up someone worse. Of course, that happens all the time, but still had a big effect. Also, moving to the city removed a lot of the perceived glitz although there are more women . I've come to enjoy both though.

LOL, that hits him right on the head and seeing the word aristocracy reminds me of one of my first lists, 'Top 200 Words that Should Be Brought Back to General Usage.' Needless to say, I started narrowing it down to 20 or less since then . It is pretty funny to me that he uses phrases like 'pulling yourself up by the bootstraps' ect. and thinks of himself as the example of the American Dream due to being bankrupt a few times despite the fact that he was born rich. Last time I checked, being born rich wasn't part of the American Dream outline . On the other hand, a lot of the software giants were born somewhat well off but I still find them more interesting seeing as how they are at least innovators and showed some creativity. Of course, its no coincidence that many are the same age and from California, making them also at the perfect place at the perfect time as well, but still more interesting to me anyway.

Some of the Favorite Models...

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Disclaimer: Criteria varies per category .

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Favorite Editorial Models

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Interrestingly enough, this is probably the biggest group and also the group where attractiveness matters the least compared to other groups. That's not to say that some aren't also attractive.

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Gemma Ward

Tiiu Kiuk

Sasha Pivovorova

Shalom Harlow

Coco Rocha

Ana Maria 'Jaggy' Jagodzinska

Tsanna Latouche

Tanya D.

Daria Werbowy

Alana Zimmer

Many more since this is probably the biggest group, so need to think about that.

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Favorite Runway Models

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Gemma Ward

Naomi Campbell

Gisele Buncheon

Shalom Harlow

Cintia Dicker

Natasha Poly

Jordanna Dunn

more...

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Cosmetic Commercial Models

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Christie Turlington

Jessica White

Erin Wasson

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Spokesmodels

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Cindy Crawford

Behati Prinsloo

Marisa Miller

others

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Red Carpet/Event Models

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Iman

Liya Kebede

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more to come...*edit* Wrong thread, but you get the idea .