donbot

You're probably right about Cameron, but I have an affection for all the Aliens characters - even the lifeless meathead ones. Maybe that's just nostalgia talking, from a time when I was too impressionable to know any better

Maybe that's why he found the perfect vessel in Arnie?!!

I mean, really?

No, Prometheus this week - now the kids are back at school and the cinema will be much nicer...

^

Don, I didn't know that. hmmmph...that's a strange reveal.

Random like Weyland being Vicker's father.. or Vickers burning Charlie (most ridiculous thing in the film)

I got to say, I'm really enjoying this conversation.

Prometheus ****/***** Good film (or more accurately, half a film...), and breaks new ground. I can't think of any other setting that's quite like it. I like the concept, and it mostly works. The overwhelming feeling I have is that it's pieces of a great film, but rather loosely tied together. The same problems with the plot holes, continuity errors, (big problems w/) the aliens, insufficient character development, and other mistakes keep it from being great. There was an outstanding movie in there somewhere and if Scott had been granted the additional 130 M USD and 30-60 more minutes and some creative/storyline changes, then the inadequacies would have probably been resolved.

This should be of interest: Conceptual art scans from the film:

http://www.prometheu...film-updated/p1

Rapace was better than I expected. Charlize was a beauty and played a familiar role adequately. Guy Pearce is always good.

And Fassbender did a great job. Every line he uttered was of interest.

That Lawrence of Arabia/ Solitary David scene was a nice touch..

Viral is interesting, too:

I also really liked the design of the ship and

the way progress into the site was mapped out and logically presented

- So Scott makes sure that we get to see and understand the different sections of the Prometheus ship and the Alien site. Intimacy with the environment is achieved- which is rare in most adventure films.

Ship blueprints:

http://pat49.blogspo...s-interior.html

I like to see a picture of

the basketball court

but it's not there.

Today I´m writing you tomorrow how I felt about it. Andy, thanks for the insight I´m even more excited!

Well I had a bear I loved when I was little, but then past that I dunno.. there were a lot, but none that really stick out that I have a lasting affection for. I used to like Lego a lot.

My Voltron was pretty badass, although I was always jealous of the kids who had the giant sized one <_<

so cute! Did you play with cars a lot? I loved playing with brothers´ cars (though he wasn´t that excited about that) - but my parents never bought cars to me Not until I was 14 or 15, at that time my dad started to bring me small and medium-sized models of BMW and Mercedes cars.

When I was little I loved to copy disney characters from books I had, draw them, colour them and play with them - I had a whole family sagas I love to create my own tools and characters

and yeah, LEGO - that was one huge passion, with my brother we were building castles and fortresses

You're probably right about Cameron, but I have an affection for all the Aliens characters - even the lifeless meathead ones. Maybe that's just nostalgia talking, from a time when I was too impressionable to know any better

^Overall I think is characterisation (across all films) is pretty dire. Bay, quite rightly by the way, gets criticised for his one-dimensional characters - but the much lauded Cameron isn't much better. I guess it's just that his handling of special-effects and set-pieces is far superior means he's exempt from such scrutiny? But even when you look at a less bombastic (at least for the first 10 hours ) film like Titanic, the hackneyed lines and blatant stereotyping of the passengers and crew is painful!

I never even saw Titanic

Can't really argue with what you're saying about his characterisations. I mean he's created some great iconic film characters - The Terminator, T-1000, Alien queen. They're more conceptual though - none of them complex, and none of them human

I suppose I could pick out Ripley as one. She was of course already established from the first film, but I think she had a good arc over the second. It's pretty hard to mount a case for the marines in Aliens - they're all one dimensional stereotypes, but there's something to be said for the fact that I still remember them all (even the likes of Pvt. "WHERE'S BASKY??" Wierzbowski) and was rooting for them all. It's hard to imagine a team like that in a movie today where they don't mostly, if not all, come across as douches you don't give a rat's about (Transformers anyone?). But like I said, it's hard to get proper perspective under all the nostalgia, whether or not Cameron can take any credit for that.

^Hah! This reminded me of that stupid Gremlin-vegetable hybrid from the crappy sequel The New Batch:

Good lord

Glad I never saw that sequel :|

Random like Weyland being Vicker's father.. or Vickers burning Charlie (most ridiculous thing in the film)

Yeah, that reveal really fell flat I thought. You could see what they were going for, in building their relationship - establishing her as cold and detatched to the point of Captain Whatshisface asking in jest if she was in fact a robot, which was on top of Weyland referring to David as 'the son he never had' earlier in the film. But it never went anywhere beyond that one scene, then they both died without any further reference or payoff

Thanks a lot for the link, I loved looking through those. I might even go buy that book - I'd love to read all the annotations to go with the pictures.

I think I pretty much agree with your opinion and summary there

so cute! Did you play with cars a lot? I loved playing with brothers

Today I´m writing you tomorrow how I felt about it. Andy, thanks for the insight I´m even more excited!

Have a good time, it's definitely a film that's worth some after-movie discussion

Yeah, that reveal really fell flat I thought. You could see what they were going for, in building their relationship - establishing her as cold and detatched to the point of Captain Whatshisface asking in jest if she was in fact a robot, which was on top of Weyland referring to David as 'the son he never had' earlier in the film. But it never went anywhere beyond that one scene, then they both died without any further reference or payoff

Thanks a lot for the link, I loved looking through those. I might even go buy that book - I'd love to read all the annotations to go with the pictures.

Both Charlize and David have very idealized 'dutch/german' appearances, and I think that planting speculative intention that

Charlize was Weyland's female robot

was intentional. But the scene on the bridge with Captain Janek proves that it's not the case. I do find it interesting to see that the two even wear matching uniforms that distinguish themselves from the rest of the crew- David wears a German/Austrian-style tunic and Weyland/Vickers wear Indian Nehru style jackets.

^Hah! This reminded me of that stupid Gremlin-vegetable hybrid from the crappy sequel The New Batch:

Good lord

Glad I never saw that sequel :|

The first had genuinely creepy bits, shocks and gore (at least by the standards of the time) - plus Phoebe Cates' wonderful cautionary Christmas soliloquy. The second one abandoned any sense of danger and relied on crappy slapstick and fart jokes.

:baronlamesign:

so cute! Did you play with cars a lot? I loved playing with brothers´ cars (though he wasn´t that excited about that) - but my parents never bought cars to me Not until I was 14 or 15, at that time my dad started to bring me small and medium-sized models of BMW and Mercedes cars.

Yeah I used to collect Matchbox & Hot Wheels cars, and of course remote controlled cars were always the coolest

Now that I'm looking at this again:

Well then. I saw it last night.

First of all, it was an absolute feast visually. Gorgeous cinemaography, cgi, set design, costumes and all the rest of it - both in its own right, and the way it aligned itself with the first couple of films in the franchise. Personally, if you're an Alien fan I think you'd be crazy to not go see it (and I mean properly - not through a Russian's shady camera work ).

Yep, pretty much.

I thought they cast very well, in so much as there wasn't anyone with that overt 'star power' (with Charlize Theron I suppose being the exception, and she rather stood out as one) which kept everything grounded to a certain degree. I think everyone turned in a pretty honest performance, however I think one of the film's flaws was its almost laughably clichéd stereotypes chosen to make up the numbers on the crew. There were also more than a few moments where supposedly intelligent people did incredibly stupid things - but I suppose you always get that to a degree in movies.

The most obvious being the act of removing the helmets in an Alien environment...

Okay, so here's a big plothole: The Prometheus (in the intro) states that it had 17 people on board (does David count?). So, lets see

Holloway, Fifield, Milburn, Vickers, Weyland, Janeck and his two copilots die. The Zombie kills/or gravely injures two faceless crew members. That's 8 people definitely dead, with 2 injured/deceased. The Engineer knocks down the other PhD scientist woman and security man. (probably not lethal) David's head gets ripped off. So there's 8 dead, 4 undisclosed casualties, and 4 people that are MIA.....Elizabeth Shaw ends the movie w/ a monologue proclaiming that 'the ship and its entire crew are gone'. What happened for instance, to the PhD scientist woman's partner? You know, the lady that examined the skull and helped examine the biological weapon? She disappears forever from the film. It's stuff like this that bugs Prometheus viewers.

You're right about Michael Fassbender hitting it out of the park though. Lance Henriksen's Bishop I think is the best and most iconic of all the Alien androids, but Ian Holm's Ash is one for the ages too (the less said about Winona the better ) - and there was a lot of him in the character of David, although a good part of Ash's creepiness was replaced with David's curiosity and naivity.

I don't remember Bishop very much outside of the fact that he played the role adequately. I saw Aliens years and years ago. But David can rightfully claim that he's the most handsome android in film history, even more so than Jude Law in AI...heh... An entire film could be made around him. I don't think that David was naive Don,

I think he was a sociopath, and also became self conscious. He poisoned Charlie, remember (how random is that, lol). Remember when he said 'Don't every child want their parents dead'? or when walking into the Alien chamber "A superior species, no doubt". And when he's suiting up w/ Charlie, and he quips to Charlie "[i'm] Not too similar [to human beings], I hope".

He's talking about the humans. He's not impressed with human beings, and sees himself as superior to his creators. I wonder, what does he say to the Engineer before the Engineer decapitates him? That's another manipulative Ridley Scott Riddle.........! "

Did you notice the homage to Alien4 (w/ the superhuman memory and basketball playing? That's just like Clone Ridley.

I remember Ash to be pretty boring, and his reveal came as a surprise to me. Winona...played Winona in Alien 4. Not a good creative decision...

I found that the story and pacing really started to become clumsy towards the back end of the movie. There were some really strange shifts in momentum where some scenes passed over as anti-climactic or total non-events. I find the whole reveal of the engineers to be quite interesting - the way you were quite disappointed to learn how they actually are, in the same way the characters were. You probably won't quite understand this reference, but the exact same thing happened in the game the came out earlier this year Mass Effect 3, where you get to meet and interact with a Prothean - a long extinct alien race that was talked about and alluded to in the two games prior. They were incredibly advanced, enlightened and mysterious - revered by most, and even thought of as gods by some. Then the one you meet is kind of a jerk and a warmonger. It shattered the image of them to characters in the game, as well as to players in the real world. I don't think that revelation is an inherenty bad thing - the dichotomy between the two versions of them is an interesting notion in itself.

I got to say that I expected a lot more than what I saw with the Alien. That's probably my biggest disappointment with the film. There were so many routes Scott could have taken, but he took the tired one, in my view- the hostile, thug like Alien. I was hoping for something more complex and creative than that.

Regardless, we still don't really know anything about them at all - we know how one from a particular ship acted. It's been suggested that there's a divide amongst the engineers - those who are pro human, and those who want to destroy them, stemming from the origin of our relationship with them. It's still unclear as to whether they actually were our creators or not; and if so, whether it was by accident or by design. It will be interesting to see where the sequels go from here, although it's a bit disappointing that we didn't really learn much at all about anything.

Yep, I fully agree.

The Engineer that sacrifices himself is obviously the 'Prometheus' figure. And we still don't know what the Alien crew was running from, and why they all died in a pile (LOL). Scott and his riddles........

Just watching Aliens - and I've realised how James Cameron isn't that far behind Michael Bay when it comes to gung-ho histrionics and unintentionally irritating military types.

I guess some of his films have been entertaining, but probably the only one I can say I like is The Terminator.

Something tells me that the "Colonial Marines" were meant to be human cartoon characters. They seem to be partially designed to sell children's action figures Although that film is rated 'R' I remember seeing it on video as a lil' middle school student and being thoroughly 'wowed'!

That film and reading this horrifying (and still is) miniseries permanently etched the Xenomorph as 'the' most terrifying Alien monster.

I recently revisited this ambitious comic a few years ago (via Aliens Omnibus) and it was still a scary piece of work. Probably the most disturbing comic I've ever read. It's an extension of the 'Aliens' universe, and goes into what goes on in the Alien Hive itself. The white haired-scientist is a "Dr. Mengele" ish figure, fully devoted to 'the ends justifies the means', and himself a survivor of a Xenomorph infestation. Then the human and alien experiments begin....... this lurid visual tale gave me several nightmares as a kid!

Ok guys, I´ve seen Prometheus yesterday and... this is all going to be a one huge spoiler.

First of all, the movie made me absolutely speechless after the end. I was like "What?" and then "Really?" and I really could not think and did not know WHAT to think about the whole movie.

It must be said, that for an Alien fan, and fan of Ridley Scott, this is a sure MUST BE and a total soul and eye feast.

It must be said, that for someone uninterested it is a total bullshit. This was a total difference between me and my fl - he thought it was an absolute idiocracy and I actually quite like it - BUT -

all of the flaws you guys have already mentioned - I just can´t agree more.

I loved the effects, the whole concept of the planet and space ship, it was pretty perfect and epic. I loved David / Fassenberg to death, his character made me alert for the whole time of the movie. I think I´ve never seen a more perfect robot whose character evolved in a natural way - his mind was purely logical, inteligent, with a scientific interest in everything. I think they underrated him pretty much when saying he was "just a robot". I agree with Andy that his acts and deeds pointed to a simple idea that he actually felt superior to the humans, just like any other extremely inteligent individual feels superior to the other "stupid and common" people. Wasn´t he actually so much better than his "engineeers", humans? He could not get ill, he could not die, he was super-inteligent computer mind like, far more strong and logical than all of them. His deduction was, afterall, right - he was better than them.

I quite liked the characters, aside of their shallowness and typical ways of dying (you just knew who´s going to die first and who last) I liked Charlize, the way she represented the cold hearted never appreciated enough daughter, that was quite good.

I also liked Janek, although he wasn´t too much original character, he was immensely human.

Noomi played well, but did not dazzle me like David did

There were far too many questions and far too many speculations. Usually I love such things about movie, when it leaves a lot of room to think about that, but this was just too much. Sometimes it almost looked like even the Ridley himself has no idea how to solve it.

Why did the first engineer at the beginning die?

How many species of Alien were there? I´ve seen at least three, and all of them acted differently and looked differently and I can not understand that all.

What kind of infection was that was killing the Engineers, and why did they not turned into other aliens? They just exploded

Why did not the ship sail to the Earth as was planned? Why was the "bad" Engineer put into stasis, if he wanted to actually leave?

Why did the black mass start to live when the crew entered the tomb?

There were also some unlogical things throughout the whole movie, I just mention those that striked me the most weird:

Their technology (human) was extremely developed, with all those sondas and stasis and light-speed around, and yet they were using regular hand torches??? I was like "Are you serious?"

Having operated and alien from your belly and then running around like nothing that serious happened was a bit... well... weird.

Running to save your life from a falling ship in the way those women did is like running to save your life from a falling tree in the actual direction of his fall. I mean, why not run to the right or left, that would be far too logical, wouldn´t it be, David?

You have a god-knows-how much heavy ship that falls on you and then you realize that you were saved by a ... simple rock that is smaller than your golden retriever. Ok, you can always say "that was an alien rock, it could be harder than any rocks on this earth" but it still will sound stupid.

Undeveloped characters, just like Andy said, the whole movie could easily just turn around David and nothing bad would happen. It would be actually even better.

This seems to be all for now, maybe I´ll come up with something later.

Yeah I used to collect Matchbox & Hot Wheels cars, and of course remote controlled cars were always the coolest

I used to copy characters all the time too, although I didn't play with them It was more cartoons like The Simpsons, Ren & Stimpy and Beavis & Butt-Head though, then later comics like X-Men and Spawn

Beavis and Butt-Head I had a computer game with them, where you have to spit on people (I know, it sounds tacky) - it was pretty cool one

The Ninja Turtles comics was actually the reason I learned to read early in my 5 years

When you copied those characters, what did you do with them?

]^Did you guys make elaborate ramps and jumps out of drainpipes and bits of cardboard too?!?!

Lol, no, we had something like a lego to build such things (but it was not lego), but we did often create the whole parking houses and such things on the sand pit - that was wholesome

The first had genuinely creepy bits, shocks and gore (at least by the standards of the time) - plus Phoebe Cates' wonderful cautionary Christmas soliloquy. The second one abandoned any sense of danger and relied on crappy slapstick and fart jokes.

Ah yes, I used to have a big crush on her in this movie

^Did you guys make elaborate ramps and jumps out of drainpipes and bits of cardboard too?!?!

I had a plastic track thing with a loop-de-loop and a ramp on it, which I'd use as a basis to launch them off my own epic jumps.

I used to make little ostacle courses for my remote control cars too, but I wasn't really brave enough to send them airborne

Now that I'm looking at this again:

There were also more than a few moments where supposedly intelligent people did incredibly stupid things - but I suppose you always get that to a degree in movies.

The most obvious being the act of removing the helmets in an Alien environment...

Yeah, that. Also..

Millburn's 180 from being shit scared of anything and everything in the place, wanting to get the hell out of there, to being suddenly allured by this alien creature, clearly rearing up in a threatening posture

Okay, so here's a big plothole: The Prometheus (in the intro) states that it had 17 people on board (does David count?). So, lets see

Yeah, no idea on that one

I don't remember Bishop very much outside of the fact that he played the role adequately. I saw Aliens years and years ago. But David can rightfully claim that he's the most handsome android in film history, even more so than Jude Law in AI...heh... An entire film could be made around him. I don't think that David was naive Don,

I think he was a sociopath, and also became self conscious. He poisoned Charlie, remember (how random is that, lol). Remember when he said 'Don't every child want their parents dead'? or when walking into the Alien chamber "A superior species, no doubt". And when he's suiting up w/ Charlie, and he quips to Charlie "[i'm] Not too similar [to human beings], I hope".

He's talking about the humans. He's not impressed with human beings, and sees himself as superior to his creators. I wonder, what does he say to the Engineer before the Engineer decapitates him? That's another manipulative Ridley Scott Riddle.........! "

Did you notice the homage to Alien4 (w/ the superhuman memory and basketball playing? That's just like Clone Ridley.

I've seen Aliens many times, so that's no doubt swaying my opinion. Bishop's character was not complex in the same way as the others, but unlike them he was an outright good guy. If you remember, Ripley feared and distrusted him innately (because of her experience with Ash), and we as the audience shared this skepticism towards him because we've been there with her, and we weren't sure how to read him in some of the early (purposefully ambiguous) scenes. He ends up proving himself to her on several occasions and eventually becomes their saviour. I like that although he was quite obviously a synthetic, he showed traces of humanity - and importantly fear - in his actions, which imbued him with bravery and nobility. His (not quite) death scene was pretty epic at the end of Aliens too, you have to admit (surely you remember the queen tearing him in two?).

I should also mention that he makes another appearance in Alien 3. Ripley finds his remains (top half) from her escape pod wreckage, and gives him a jump start basically, and he's the one who tells her that there was a facehugger on board. She unplugs him again, at his request, and that's the end of his story. Although, at the end of Alien 3 'The Company' suits arrive and try to take Ripley before she sacrifices herself, one of whom (played by Lance Henriksen), reveals himself as Michael Bishop - the guy who designed the Bishop android.

And then confusingly, Henriksen also plays head of Weyland, Charles Bishop Weyland in AVP.. but I don't suppose those movies should count as canon anyway :|

But anyway.. David. Yeah I think naive was a bad choice of word there. I don't think he was a complete sociopath though - I believe he was still loyal to Weyland and had his best interests in mind. Do you? Or do you think he was purely in it for himself by the end? Either way, it's clear his regard for the crew took a back seat to his own curiosity and fascination with the Engineers and the idea of creation of life.

Cult & Jennka - did you guys see it in 3D too? What did you think of it?

Why did the first engineer at the beginning die?

Not really sure what was happening in that scene, but I read one theory that he was basically spawning new life on some world somewhere (not necessarily the same moon that the rest of the movie takes place in - maybe even Earth?

) by merging his DNA with the mysterious black goo

How many species of Alien were there? I

Beavis and Butt-Head I had a computer game with them, where you have to spit on people (I know, it sounds tacky) - it was pretty cool one

I had that same game! Hock-a-Loogie.

OMG.. just found a Flash version of it

http://www.box10.com/beavis-and-butthead-hock-a-loogie.html

When you copied those characters, what did you do with them?

Oh I had scrapbooks full of them, and also stuck them on my walls

Cult & Jennka - did you guys see it in 3D too? What did you think of it?

Why did the first engineer at the beginning die?

Not really sure what was happening in that scene, but I read one theory that he was basically spawning new life on some world somewhere (not necessarily the same moon that the rest of the movie takes place in - maybe even Earth?

) by merging his DNA with the mysterious black goo

How many species of Alien were there? I´ve seen at least three, and all of them acted differently and looked differently and I can not understand that all.

I think the xenos in the first films were pretty well understood, in that they took on characteristics of their host (eg. the xeno in Alien 3 burst out of a dog and was smaller and faster, and had a more canine like gait to its movement). But in Prometheus..

The black goo came out of left field and threw up a lot of unanswered questions, as to exactly what it did, as well as how and why. You could see a certain logic behind the hammerpede mutating from the worms, but what was the deal with the zombie crew and the squid? And of course we don't know how this goo relates back to the eggs/xenos/etc of the Alien films, if at all. You should go back and look at the pic that Cult posted

http://www.bellazon....40#entry2908820

Yes, I did see that in 3D - 3D mostly gives me a headache, but it was OK this time. I enjoyed the ship in 3D absolutely - it looked so real. What do you think?

The picture - OH MY GOD how much sense does it make now and thank you for the answers, they seem quite logical there is so much to think about this movie

I had that same game! Hock-a-Loogie.

OMG.. just found a Flash version of it

http://www.box10.com...k-a-loogie.html

OOOOOOOOH my I had to play it instantly

Oh I had scrapbooks full of them, and also stuck them on my walls

Do you still have those scrapbooks?

Stucking things on the wall, oh yeah I had mostly my paintings or dolphins or cats or models stuck on my wall how about you?

I had that same game! Hock-a-Loogie.

OMG.. just found a Flash version of it

http://www.box10.com...k-a-loogie.html

OOOOOOOOH my I had to play it instantly

OMG I remember playing this one too! Haha!!