donbot

I can't help but be reminded of The Big Lebowski whenever I hear that though

I think of epic funerals whenever I hear of that piece. And Fairy-like women dropping rose pedals all over a grave.

I never got to watch Lebowski in full, but I saw that scene. Incidentally, I was just going to post about the oddities of a patriarch in another conversation.

Good thing they're made to be played and not watched then

Of course you can't match human opponents, but you don't need to if the gameplay and mechanics are strong enough, and the AI still decent enough to require a challenge.. particularly when different types of enemies are combined together in the same fight.

Having played both series extensively, Half Life and Bioshock don't feel anything like one another to me. I agree the gunplay was not particularly refined, especially in the first Bioshock - it felt a little loose and floaty. It's gotten a bit better over the course of the series, but the feel of the weaponry still has remained fundamentally the same. It has its own signature though, and is part of the character of the game. Bioshock is not a pure shooter - not acknowledging the plasmid and tonic powers, and the range of gameplay options they offer is a misunderstanding of the game's fundamentals. With the right setup, you can be a beast with just the wrench if you want.

Have you watched 'Killzone 2'? The playing 'feel' is very similar and I wouldn't be surprised if they both shared much of the same technology. Fundamentally though, half life were their antecedents. The adventuring mood, the scavenger hunts, the set-ups, etc. is all right there. Bioshock definitely takes a lot from Shenmue, and particularly the first 1/4th.

Bioshock also poaches the licensed graphic tech (ragdoll physics ) that I've seen elsewhere. The emphasis on melee is more than elsewhere but still, it's not gameplay to write about though and is more of distraction to me. It's not bad or anything, it's just boring. I don't like watching or playing twitch games. Bioshock excels at crafting an interactive world & story, and that's its forte.

Ro2 multiplayer is more along the lines of finely tuned shooter that I liked. You have to think more before you do anything, and clever positioning & coordination is more vital to success than impulse clicking. Enemies are hidden in ruins 100-200 meters away rather than point blank and move around in groups. It's far slower, and there's a constant feel of uncertainly & standoff. If you expose your body and/or make a frontal push, you revert to the mean. But if you figure out another way, you can do really well. The historical accuracy is also a big plus!

Ah.. you know as I wrote that I actually started thinking that it was likely to be the case - I thought it seemed odd

I'm just at the point in the game where I'm back with Elizabeth after we were separated, and she is a bit worse for wear.

I like the Luteces. In watching a bit more, it is apparent to me that you must go in the opposite direction of the arrows in order to obtain full enjoyment of the things the developers laid out for you. There are a lot of interesting artifacts and 'crime scenes' later on.

As you know, there is a Marxist rebellion and the Reds start going 'Full Mao' or 'full Russian/and or cultural revolution...' The wealthiest part of Colombia is probably modeled after early 1900s NYC- Wall Street. I see much resemblance in the architecture. Finkton and the factory areas remind me of 'Willy Wonka & the chocolate factory,' haha.

I'd probably rate it like this now:

First 1/4th: 6/5 (boundary pushing..just excellent) Rest: 4/5.

I can't help but be reminded of The Big Lebowski whenever I hear that though

I think of epic funerals whenever I hear of that piece. And Fairy-like women dropping rose pedals all over a grave.

I never got to watch Lebowski in full, but I saw that scene. Incidentally, I was just going to post about the oddities of a patriarch in another conversation.

Hands down my favourite comedy - it's amazing

Have you watched 'Killzone 2'? The playing 'feel' is very similar and I wouldn't be surprised if they both shared much of the same technology. Fundamentally though, half life were their antecedents. The adventuring mood, the scavenger hunts, the set-ups, etc. is all right there. Bioshock definitely takes a lot from Shenmue, and particularly the first 1/4th.

Bioshock also poaches the licensed graphic tech (ragdoll physics ) that I've seen elsewhere. The emphasis on melee is more than elsewhere but still, it's not gameplay to write about though and is more of distraction to me. It's not bad or anything, it's just boring. I don't like watching or playing twitch games. Bioshock excels at crafting an interactive world & story, and that's its forte.

Ro2 multiplayer is more along the lines of finely tuned shooter that I liked. You have to think more before you do anything, and clever positioning & coordination is more vital to success than impulse clicking. Enemies are hidden in ruins 100-200 meters away rather than point blank and move around in groups. It's far slower, and there's a constant feel of uncertainly & standoff. If you expose your body and/or make a frontal push, you revert to the mean. But if you figure out another way, you can do really well. The historical accuracy is also a big plus!

o_O

Yeah, I've played Killzone 2.. and I have no idea where that comparison came from! Granted, the Helghast soldiers look a little like the Combine from Half-Life, but that's about where it ends. Killzone is more of the Call of Duty/Battlefield school of shooter - completely different to how Half-Life plays and feels, and add another order of magnitude to how different it is to Bioshock. Bioshock has more in common with something like Dishonored than any other game I can think of, and that you could barely call a shooter.

If you walk into a room filled with enemies in Bioshock, and clear it the same way you would in any other military shooter, then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking advantage of the open nature of the game, and the countless possibilities you have to approach the fight. You're not having fun with the creativity you're afforded with the combinations of weapons, powers and abilities at your disposal.

Might just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I like the Luteces. In watching a bit more, it is apparent to me that you must go in the opposite direction of the arrows in order to obtain full enjoyment of the things the developers laid out for you. There are a lot of interesting artifacts and 'crime scenes' later on.

Yeah I like when games include those bits of navigation - that's exactly how I use them.. where to not go if I want to see everything. I hate when you unwittingly cross a threshold in a game, and it closes a door behind you, or launches into a cutscene that takes you to another place, locking you out of an area before you've had a chance to fully explore it :persuazn:

Good sir, sorry for the lack of presence as of late, busy days now and not slowing down anytime soon. But I shall try to pop-in whenever I can.

With all that said how about some airplane ballet?

How go your cities? I hope you're keeping MarloeSIM well fed and happy <_<

o_O

Yeah, I've played Killzone 2.. and I have no idea where that comparison came from! Granted, the Helghast soldiers look a little like the Combine from Half-Life, but that's about where it ends. Killzone is more of the Call of Duty/Battlefield school of shooter - completely different to how Half-Life plays and feels, and add another order of magnitude to how different it is to Bioshock. Bioshock has more in common with something like Dishonored than any other game I can think of, and that you could barely call a shooter.

If you walk into a room filled with enemies in Bioshock, and clear it the same way you would in any other military shooter, then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking advantage of the open nature of the game, and the countless possibilities you have to approach the fight. You're not having fun with the creativity you're afforded with the combinations of weapons, powers and abilities at your disposal.

Might just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Yeah, I disagree. It's just not innovative. The coding/ragdoll physics/setups of the AI appears to be very similar between killzone & bioshock. Very dull and predictable AI. The the non-linear set pieces are static and predictable (just , say, a football field sized area at most with a bunch of enemies that stand around in a semi-circle, respawn, etc. ) and the person can approach it from different vantage points. I've watched substantial portions of Crysis 2 and Killzone 2 and they do the same thing.

The bioshock fighting is that plus run around in circles sort of reflex fighting. + left hand gimmicks and the rail gimmicks. It looks tiring to play.

I do like the AI of the 'Handyman', though. That was surprisingly well done. But for ten years, the AI has not really improved much since 'Halo' although I would prefer if it had.

The first thing that programmers need to do is to figure out how to program AI to fight in coordinated squads, with instincts of self-preservation, rather than as brazen groups of single units. That's the only way they can make single-player shooters better.

e when games include those bits of navigation - that's exactly how I use them.. where to not go if I want to see everything. I hate when you unwittingly cross a threshold in a game, and it closes a door behind you, or launches into a cutscene that takes you to another place, locking you out of an area before you've had a chance to fully explore it :persuazn:

There are a lot of audiologs that are off the linear path.

This guy does a thorough walkthrough of the game:

http://www.youtube.c...1/videos?view=0

^Well, we clearly have very different experiences of video games

I rarely stick to the linear path.. especially in a game like this. No doubt there's the odd one I've missed, but I've been pretty thorough so far

^

You know, the video game business is getting more coverage in the business press due to its problems. Not only are the gaming companies getting squeezed, but so are their retail distribution channels like Gamestop. Industry growth has been weak for the past 7 years. Part of me thinks that this is why there's been stagnation in these graphic arts.

--

I searched 'sander cohen' on youtube and I found that you can actually explore his apartment while he's inside. He's dancing with a woman that 'wants to start a business'..

There is also a corpse in his bathtub and human plaster statues in his bedroom :evil:

'Waltz of Flowers' (or more appropriately, Waltz of Death) is his song:

^Yeah, you can only get access to that apartment if you don't kill him during your first encounter with him, after he gives you the gift

I don't feel like it's stagnating as a whole. From a technical standpoint, the unfortunate console generation cycle is responsible for holding everything back. Finally now that the next generation is due for release soon, there'll be another few leaps forward until it eventually slows back down again. From a creative standpoint, it's not really that different from the music, film or TV industries - there's loads of crap that gets churned out with variable levels of entertainment and quality. Most of the real innovative, interesting and creative stuff happens in the indie scene, where developers have more freedom to have their own voice, take risks and try new things.

I think the technical term for this is "Damn!"

http://i.minus.com/ibs2b4mSJNkLGh.gif

Warning: epic nudity

^

Is that Emily Whatsherface?

^

Is that Emily Whatsherface?

Yes.

That girl sure hates clothes

That girl sure hates clothes

I hate them too, on her.

Haha, that's what filmmakers like to say. The hard part, of course, its converted good ideas into a finished, marketable product.

I enjoyed watching bioshock infinite. Do consoles even matter anymore? Most material appears on PCs anyway.

About gaming/console generations, I personally believe that console and PC games haven't moved much forward as an art form since the launching of the PS2 (also the last console I've ever owned). During those years, all the basic genres of gaming were established; adventure, shooter, rpg, sports, etc. Over the next decade, it was all incremental improvement on these fundamentals.

The ps3 and x box 360 were more advanced versions of the same thing to me, and nothing revolutionary. The same basic concepts but with much increased computing power.

I do wonder if adult gamers are as fatigued as I am. (I am similarly fatigued with movies and tv)- I haven't watched tv shows in more than 10 years and I only cherry pick a few movies to watch every year. With games, there are a few boundary shifting ones these past 10 years:

Bioshock, parts of Bioshock infinite, parts of Red Dead Redemption, and Dead space. I can't think of anything else for the moment.

^Yeah, you can only get access to that apartment if you don't kill him during your first encounter with him, after he gives you the gift

I don't feel like it's stagnating as a whole. From a technical standpoint, the unfortunate console generation cycle is responsible for holding everything back. Finally now that the next generation is due for release soon, there'll be another few leaps forward until it eventually slows back down again. From a creative standpoint, it's not really that different from the music, film or TV industries - there's loads of crap that gets churned out with variable levels of entertainment and quality. Most of the real innovative, interesting and creative stuff happens in the indie scene, where developers have more freedom to have their own voice, take risks and try new things.

How would you rate/rank bioshock 1, 2, and 3?

Here are a select few... I'm madly in love with her cheekbones Gotta a bit of a girl crush going on here

She's lovely

Took me a while to go through her thread. These were some of my favourites though

i'm rather late in responding

Awesome choices!! (Y) Actually don't remember seeing that last pic, super adorable Thanks!

Your set is amazing.. but that's nothing new Soeaking of which, hope you had a great Easter

Haha, that's what filmmakers like to say. The hard part, of course, its converted good ideas into a finished, marketable product.

I enjoyed watching bioshock infinite. Do consoles even matter anymore? Most material appears on PCs anyway.

About gaming/console generations, I personally believe that console and PC games haven't moved much forward as an art form since the launching of the PS2 (also the last console I've ever owned). During those years, all the basic genres of gaming were established; adventure, shooter, rpg, sports, etc. Over the next decade, it was all incremental improvement on these fundamentals.

i'm rather late in responding

Awesome choices!! (Y) Actually don't remember seeing that last pic, super adorable Thanks!

Your set is amazing.. but that's nothing new Soeaking of which, hope you had a great Easter

I guess.. but again, the same can be said about movies, tv, music, etc. Again, I think the most interesting and innovative things within the medium happen in the indie scene.

It's only natural that a 'skunkworks' unit would be formed. The trouble with commercially unproven ideas is that the limits of their funding always hovers overhead and the risk that corporate will pull the plug is always there.

I think by and large though, storytelling has gotten more ambitious and more sophisticated. There's also been significant steps forward in trying to make games more immersive, and also trying to forge more believable characters and emotive experiences. Games are more cinematic than ever too. I suppose you could point out motion gaming (Wii, PS Move, Kinect, etc..) and touch screen gaming on mobile devices as significant emergent new ideas within gaming over the past however many years, but they're rather gimmicky and only really play within a certain niche.

From what you've told me though, there are many aspects of games and gaming which you don't really care to acknowledge or appreciate.. which is understandable given you're viewing a whole lot more than you're playing. It's an interactive medium though, and there's perhaps a bit more to it than you give it credit for.

With regards to 'do consoles matter?', to me it's a bit of a no-brainer that PC is the best gaming platform, yet consoles are still where the majority of attention goes, and where the majority of the money is made. Most games do come to PC, yeah.. but not always, and many times months after the console release. Too often though, games are rather lazily ported to the PC, resulting in low quality (by PC standards) textures, badly optimised code and controls/interfaces that were clearly designed for gamepads.

^

So most games are still console rather than PC then? Why is that do you think? I think it's probably because children may prefer playing games in front of TV rather than on the computer. There is also the social aspect. (more than one controller)

I've played many of the antecedents of the current games (Grand Theft auto, half life, shenmue, zelda 64, cod, starcraft, resident evil 2, etc.) Even though I haven't played games much these past 10+ years, I still have memories and recognize the old gaming models in the latest generation of games.

My ideal is to see a fundamental improvement in gaming concepts. New genres- not just better versions of old ones. Outside of war simulation, I've lost most interest in games that involve running around with a gun all the time. I think my ideal future game would be:

1. something along the lines of bioshock infinite's first 1/4th- World creation.

2. An open-ended war simulation along the lines of 'GTA' but much more advanced.

3. vastly improved artificial intelligence and NPC & environmental interactivity.

4. Much more adult oriented storylines and themes.

It's hard to say, although 1/3 are far over and above 2 (even though I still love it ). The first game was such a special experience, with an unforgettable world, atmosphere and characters. The supporting characters were excellent in Infinite, as was their voice acting (Comstock, Fink, Fitzroy, etc), but overall I think they were still more memorable in the original game (Ryan, Cohen, Tenenbaum, etc). Infinite's Booker and Elizabeth more than made up for it though. I felt a great deal for both of them during the journey, and pretty much nothing for Bioshock's Jack. As you've pointed out, the creation of Columbia and its existance as a believable, living city is an incredible achievement. Stepping into it was one of my favourite gaming moments I've ever experienced (as was entering Rapture for the first time!). I think overall I'd have to edge towards Infinite as my favourite of the two. Which did you enjoy more?

I liked Infinite better.

There's a speed run-through of the first one and I watched some to refresh my memory. Wow, bioshock infinite is much different than bioshock. Bioshock for one, is much more claustrophobic and resembles 'survival horror' genre while bioshock infinite is more like an adventure shooter. Technically speaking, infinite is much better and the environments are much better designed.

The basic story concepts of Bioshock is IMHO worse than Infinite (I don't like the big daddy, little sister concept) but Andrew Ryan, Sander cohen, Atlas >>> Fink, Fitzroy, Comstock. I also liked the intricate designs of the splicers and their overall insane presence.

I skimmed through the wikia on Bioshock and I really think that a future prequel is very much possible. The story of rapture is very compelling. The events depicted in Bioshock is merely an 'Act 3'.

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BTW, Emily R. is a (N) . Good below the neck, though.

How go your cities? I hope you're keeping MarloeSIM well fed and happy <_<

So most games are still console rather than PC then? Why is that do you think? I think it's probably because children may prefer playing games in front of TV rather than on the computer. There is also the social aspect. (more than one controller)

Not to shabby as long as MorloesSIM stays put

But check out this nifty free DLC they added a few days back...