General Discussion Older

Well first off i would like to apologize for the fact that you weren't online at the time and that we didnt wait for you.

And hell since we're bringing everything right out in the open i wanna go ahead and point out that the only reason why i buckled was because my superiors told me there is no need for new admins and the fact that any new admins other than me, you , and neo were added was wrong and completely against the basis that Bellazon was formed on.

I also point out that I did not buckle when Neo just absolutely refused to let Nicole be admin and declared to me that he would be stepping down the moment that she became admin.

And yes I still strongly believe that Nicole would be an excellent admin so I dont want anyone to go around thinking that I gave up on her and just went with the popular belief of too many admins. I personally dont care how many admins there are present, but I do care that two admins surpassed the entire Moderator stage and jumped straight to Administrator when rightfully Nicole was the only one at the time that would probably be promoted at some point in her time with us as staff.

She was wronged and belittled even before she was considered for promotion. That is why I suggested that Avada and Jimmy be dealt with. However when i suggested this I forgot to take into account Jimmy's other websites. So his argument is legit. Other than that I suggested that Avada deal with her skins and then become moderator because personally thats how it should be. You work as a moderator and then when your superiors feel that you are an excellent worker you get moved up a notch to be in the same league as them. She skipped a whole step cuz on Feb. 22nd Neo upgraded her status to official admin and at that point we wronged Nicole.

Anyways most of that was redundant but now u guys know how I truly feel about this entire situation.

You know what? I could just quit all together and then we don't even have to have this discussion anymore. I'll email whatever the header code I come up with is to someone on the staff with the images if and when I finish and we can call it a day.

I'm tired of this and constantly having to fight for things, or it taking six times as long to do something that could take anyone five minutes to do. So if people want nicole as admin, I'm all for it. I think she'd be great. And she's very welcome to my spot.

Listen, there's no need to apologize to me for not including me in a discussion that obviously needed a moderate voice, that's done and over with. Even if I were online I doubt anyone would have said anything to me, so I've come to grips with that.

I want to say that if it came off as if I was saying you were the main force behind this, then I didn't intend for it to sound that way. I understand that Neo and Maddog pull the strings and generally assume that their word will be the final authority and that is one of the problems here too. Maddog sometime ago, said he wanted nothing to do with our decision making process here, he was only on board to fix shit when it broke, well apparently he changed his mind if he is discussing anything like this. What you need to remember is that we all have this little thing under our names that says Admin, as far as I am concerned that makes us equal, meaning, Neo and Maddog are not the final authority, thus there is no reason to take what they say as being absolute except in the cases, where it is clearly detrimental to the board, aka Legal Issues. If that is the case, then why the fuck are any of the rest of us here? If they told you there is no need for new Admins, there is no reason they couldn't have discussed that right here, instead of making you the scapegoat and having you post the decision here, unless of course you volunteered for that job.

What is this basis that Bellazon was formed on, and how does having more Admins or Staff help go against that? I'm not asking you directly Ronin, because you said you were told this, so I would expect you to understand it as much as I do. I'd like an explanation from maddog or Neo, seeing as it appears to be something only they seem to know about. If they are meaning, the base core staff that we started with, then that's just retarded, because had we stuck with that, with the amount of traffic this place gets we would have been overwhelmed. On top of that I would have been the only one making any kind of actual decisions, considering they don't give input. So I don't really know what the hell they mean by that.

Now, Neo has got a huge chip on his shoulder, that he needs to shed pretty fucking quick. I don't care what he has to say about this situation really, because his opinion is usually worthless, and in this case it is extremely biased. Considering Maddog protects Neo from any harm, he can do and say pretty much anything he wants around here, and direct peoples actions as he sees fit. Turthfully, he needs to step down, and maddog needs to realize that this place can function without Neo, and quit protecting him when he makes mistakes or takes sweeping actions without consenting anyone else. We are all here to make decisions together, to prevent against bias like that, and with the situation between those two it makes doing that difficult, if they can just choose on their own what will and won't happen. In case this sounds unfamiliar to you maddog, it is widely believed that you will close the board if Neo is not an Admin which is why he is protected, and I don't really understand why you would do something like that.

I clearly think that Nicole would be a good addition, in place of members on this staff who are clearly going to decide things by the way they feel about certain people, rather than for the good of the board. If Neo has a problem with Nicole, then maybe he should step down, because he can't seem to keep the two issues seperate, and that goes for anyone who has the same damn problem. To clarify, I shouldn't have said that you gave up on her, I should have said something to the effect of you gave in to easily to what they were saying. Now I can understand, that you think you have to go along with what they say, because they are your superiors, but again, I'm gonna point out that we should all be equal, when it comes to making decisions for this board. The fact that Neo was here from the beginning, or that maddog hosts this place, should have no bearing on these decisions, because they do not have anything to do with each other.

Myself I don't care how many Admins there are either, and it's doesn't make much sense that they do either, considering the fact, as they have stated, there is almost no difference between mods and admins, so what the hell is the problem with having more Admins. They convinced you to go along with that part, because they hold that sway over everyone, but I'm telling you, ignore that shit. The people we are talking about here have been here a while so, that they can login and delete everything if they want, as why we need less admins, is not a valid argument, we can trust all these people we have on the staff except one.

I can understand your viewpoint on having two Admins who had to do nothing to get their place, the fact remains that they both bring something more to the table than our great founder Neo, and yet, somehow, they aren't qualified to jump right in there. It doesn't make much sense. I can understand how making Avada a moderator, would still keep her input available. But the fact still remains that she has been more of a help than Admins who are currently not up for demotion, how exactly is that fair? It's not, she inputs her two cents in a productive manner, when it is necesarry and she does it often as I mentioned prior. You guys tend to walk away from situations and pretend they don't exist, wait for them to start to simmer before you guys put in your thoughts, and even then it's usually not helpful. What I am saying is that she belongs in that place more than you guys, if there is not going to be more spots for more Admins.

You're right though, Nicole did have to take a backseat before she was even up for promotion, it probably would have been a good time then to bring up the fact that maybe she should have been promoted, a year ago or whatever, but unfortunately we didn't have the luxury of timing, and this is when it came about. She should have been made Admin then, before deciding members had a bias against her becoming an Admin in the first place. That would have been peachy, but now because of this history between them, we have to play it out in some argument to even get anything across to people, and get that wrong righted.

The fact that Neo is protected from losing his place, is what is pissing me off the most. When a member clearly does anything he wants, and has no repercussions for it, and that member is blocking a bid for another member to be promoted, how is that fair? Someone better suited, and less likely to take things into their own hands whenever they feel like it, how is that a worse situation?

Now you mentioned Avada not having gone through the moderator step to get to Admin, and I think that's a fair description of what happened. The simple fact is that she was made an Admin by another Admin who chooses to do things all on his own, and then attempts to blame it on other members when it come to light. How in holy god fucking hell could anyone possibly choose him over two much better candidates for the job? It makes no sense to me that you people are so ignorant when it comes to these things. He has done so much stuff, which would have got any of the rest of us dropped so fast, and yet he still has this protection from anything and everything. So why exactly are we still dealing with this when there are people available who can do the same thing he does, without the mountain of trouble? Why is he being allowed to block OS from becoming an Admin, why is his word the final say? Because Maddog is allowing it to unfold that way, if nothing can happen to him, then he can do anything he wants, and dictate what happens with no one elses consent.

This is about two members in general, and we would all have a much happier life if Neo would step away, and maddog would let him do just that. Because then we wouldn't have Neo dictating anything, and we wouldn't have people pissed at Maddog for shielding him from everything.

The point of this should be very simple, we have two members who's actions upset any balance we could have, regardless of this situation with promoting OS or deadminning Avada and Jimmy. Decisions would be made much simpler, if we didn't have people who can't express why they do the things they do.

Edit: What you posted Avada, would solve one of the problems at the moment, but you shouldn't have to do that in the first place. Even with that part of the problem out of the way we still have the problem with Neo blocking OS, for whatever reason.

I want you two, Neo and Maddog, to explain it to me clearly, what the problem is that you tow have with this. If we can have Staff members who are not nearly as capable of performing what is needed, then what exactly is the loss in adding another Admin, who is capable of doing those things? I just don't understand what you're trains of thought are. It's like having a cat that always shits on your carpet, pisses fucking everywhere. Then one day you open your door, and on the step is a great cat, who hands you it's business card, explains that it can be everything your old cat is, minus all the problems, and you slam the door in it's fucking face, because there is a big dog standing in front of your old cat and you don't want to get bit trying to get to it to get rid of it.

Explain it to me?

*sigh*

Like I said yesterday in the little discussion with ronin and neo and OS. I have never wanted, nor do I want to have anything to do with anything on this board, specialy not politics. And I dont know why everyone keeps dragging me into these things and throwing my name around.

All this seams to me is a big power stuggle which I could really care less about, your all the ones that want the power so you all should sort it out. Also this whole argument seems to be an issue about a TITLE, if its really that important Ill create a new group for the people who need access to the control panel and everyone else can become an admin, would that make everyone happy...

Also OS would make a great admin, sure but as I told her yesterday I dont see the need for her to have access to the CP, no one really told me WHY they needed to be an admin, ok I understand that banning thing which i thought mods could do, but apart from that most of the admin panel is all about sql managment, section managment, designs and settings for the fourm, most of which are already in place and working and there is no need to tinker with them. Why is it so important to get access to taht section? The only thing i fear is someone will start poking around and click something that they shouldnt and itll break something. I can give mods access to that section easy but I really dont belive its nesseary.

Also as I mentioned yesterday I dont know who does what, you all know which people do lots of changes and moderating and all that. I am in no real position to say who should be promoted/demoted. Hell i even though Supra was still an mod :|

So my opinion on all this is yall sort it out, I just do things invisably in the background and will let you know if i ever need something to be done. For the most part im just a normal member who happens to lurk in this section every now and then.

oh and 2 things, I dont really like the invisable admins/mods which just gets confusing to know who has what power.

and capt can you write a bit less next time

You didn't really address anything that Mike wrote. Was it too much for you to read? (Oh yes, I see now that it was)

Let me tell you just how much you are involved.

There is a reason that SEVERAL admins were put in to place. The idea is that one admin would not be able to make all the decisions around here and no one admin is more powerful than the next. That system is savagely undermined when you are constantly there to shield that one admin's actions and chalk all his PURPOSEFUL wrongdoings as mistakes. Mistakes happen once James, not repeatedly. People who make mistakes don't go and tell their friends on the board that they can get away with anything. You are like the parent who never once taught his child to take responsibility for his actions, who never once punished his kid. In case what I'm saying is not clear here we go: Your threatening to shut BZ down if Marduk steps down is GETTING INVOLVED! Your reinstating him as admin that time he removed himself is GETTING INVOLVED. Your asking that Spark be removed entirely is...say it with me now...GETTING INVOLVED. You are involved! Welcome to the little club!

Re: access to the admin CP. Yeah you're right, lots of the stuff is already done, the board is set up and in place. But Admins still seem to be performing admin tasks that are getting logged so obviously there's a reason to be there. But I forgot! You don't know who does what! You don't even know that Capt Snow is an admin here. So how can you possibly make a statement about whether or not I need to access the Admin CP when you don't seem to even have much of a clue as to what goes on in there? You say you're in no real position to promote or demote YET you still manage to throw in that part about access. Do us all a favor: be consistent. Either stay out of the matter entirely or offer your opinion as a member of the staff who...GETS INVOLVED with things.

I'm done here. If you choose to respond to me, be sure to actually address what I said. Otherwise don't bother.

Well i read it all and i've really got nothing to add. Mike pointed out pretty much everything that is wrong with the board right now. I'm willing to work with you guys on fixing this problem...but at this point i have nothing else left to say until certain other members respond.

Some things were addressed above while I was posting, but, I may or may not have touched on those things in the following post, I don't know but I agree with what OS said none the less if I left them out of my post.

You'll notice I stated the same thing above in my post, that you made us aware that all of this stuff was to be our domain, yet people somehow get the idea otherwise, and well you end up getting dragged in anyways. You could probably blame Neo for most of the name throwing, and there is your problem right there. If he is telling us, "Maddog won't let me do this, or maddog won't let me do that, or maddog says, this or that" what are we supposed to do? He's throwing your name around so that he doesn't have to deal with anything as he has done with Jimmy's. Because you are the guy who hosts this site, everyone assumes, if they cross you, thier time here might as well be done, and so it goes the same for Neo because most everyone believes he has your backing in everything he does here, therefore they won't call him on his bullshit. Do you see where I'm coming from now? It would be nice to know if there is a guy on this forum who can do whatever he pleases because he has your approval to do so, or if we can do something about it as a collective, without having to deal with consequences from you. It's a simple question, and the last one I will ever personally have to involve you in if you answer it. Because this situation with him, should be between the rest of the staff to decide upon, and not be in the hands of a single person to hold sway over.

To address the power struggle thing, personally it has nothing to do with what I can or cannot do, because when it comes down to it, I'll do what I know to be the right thing regardless of whether or not it puts me in a bad light. Unfortunately, it's not the same for everyone. We should sort it out amongst ourselves is what you said, and I couldn't agree more, which takes me back to whether or not we can actually take these things with Neo into our own hands without you protecting him from us. I would never have thought of bringing any of this up right now, had he not thrown my name in there to try and shirk the blame for something he did, that's a goddamn cowardly move. What's worse is it's not the only time he has done it, nor am I the only person he has done it to. I just happen to be the one who has gotten your attention about it enough to get you to answer me this one question.

Unfortunately I don't really know how to express myself in any other way than a huge stream of paragraphs, but I do think it helps get my point across, when you are sick of reading you know I'm serious.

Now, there are other things besides a title, but truthfully, for me it has nothing to do with any of the other things an Admin can do. What it has to with is something I attempted to make clear in my previous posts. Why if someone like Neo can have that authority and can be allowed to help make these stupid decisions, can we not have a member who will actually give us some feedback when it is needed. The fact that it got dangled in front of her, and then snatched away because Neo holds a grudge, well that is something we should be discussing, when we discuss him and what to do about him. Basically does he deserve it with all he's done, and why does Nicole not? It's not even about whether or not she becomes an Admin anymore, it's about letting Neo do whatever the hell he wants, and have to answer to no one when there are 6 other admins. The situation with bringing Nicole on as an Admin and deadminning Avada and Jimmy, has just been a catalyst to bring all of this to light. It all comes back to if you are protecting him from us, which he has claimed you are, how do we ever resolve the problem? It a simple thing to deal with once you know within what bounds we have to operate to be safe.

I've shown enough restraint when it comes to him, and what he did last night, it's the final straw for me, I'm not letting this rest until I have a solution, it's as simple as that. If he would take responsibility for what he has done, this never would have happened, because there would be nothing to argue about.

Creating new user groups isn't necessary, considering it's not the Admin status that's really even at the heart of this here. I'm sure Nicole wants to be an Admin, but I think she probably would much rather, see a solution with the way Neo behaves. Consider what Ronin quoted Neo as saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, "The day Nicole becomes Admin, is the day I'm not an Admin anymore". This is the kind of thing we need to discuss him doing, once again it goes back to, is he untouchable? If we knew these things we could decide these matters with the freedom that it provides us with.

You're right about the majority of the Admin panel not needing any tweaking, everything is in place as it should be and there is a minimal amount of things we actually need to access in there. The fact is once again, that while that is on topic here, I am more interested in coming to a solution to the problem I have put forth, this Admin crap is now a backdrop as far as I am concerned. As I said above somewhere, Nicole would make a good Admin, as everyone agrees on, but for that one person. In general had it been an open discussion, we would have everyone deciding on how things were going to work. Instead we have you three and Nicole stowing away to discuss. You mentioned yourself that you were dragged in, you should have said something right there if you didn't that this is a decision for everyone but you. Next, Ronin believed he has to follow what you two say when it should be an agreement between all of us, but because of how Neo lords it over us that he is protected, it makes it difficult to express what we really want to happen. Once again back to that protection question. Do you see how much thowing names around can effect how things unfold? Why do we put up with what he does? Back to that protection bit.

Now, you're worried about people busting something in there, which I can understand, it has happened before, but it wasn't anything major from what I recall. But you know all of us, it's not like we just picked a random member to go and be an Admin, it's Nicole, I don't think you have to worry about her destroying anything, considering she has worked with the panel before. I mean, it's not something that should sway your decision to allow another Admin, it's only one more person getting in there, and we went through the same thing when Ronin was brought in, albeit he was an Admin befere you got IPB. Same goes for Jimmy and Avada, although they had prior experience with IPB, so it made them less likely to break something. Neither I nor Neo had ever been familiar with the panel until you installed it all. So what I'm saying is, it's unlikely someone is going to drastically mess something up, and it should be a base point for disallowing someone in there. But I can see where you're coming from and it makes sense, but we're not letting the devil loose here, it's Nicole.

You were mentioning you don't really know what anyone does, and that is exactly how I assumed it was, based on what you had said about only being involved in a minor way with what goes on in here. I think one of the problems, is people still assume that you are actively involved or want to be involved with the decisions in here, and that lends credit again to the stregth Neo gains by throwing your name around, when something comes up that he doesn't want to be responsible for.

We should sort these things out just as you said, when events occur like this, it should be us deciding what happens, and Neo needs to not lord over us as if he is untouchable and start taking some responsibility for what he does around here. If anyone else did what he does, I would expect them to be held accountable just the same. But people don't want to be screwed over by saying something about him or suggesting something be done, if he is under your wing, and you inturn protect him, as he has said you are doing.

The invisible Admins/Mod thing, well it's nice to be able to see invisible people, just to get an idea of who we are online with. I really could live with or without it, but I think most of the staff would prefer to be able to see everyone. It's been toyed around with, but from what I understand, it's another one of those things, which certain members don't want other staff members to have , for whatever reason. Personally I can live with the way it is, as I am sure everyone else can.

This whole post is pretty much just re-stating what I want to know in the first place. It's long winded again, but discussion about a subject which everyone chooses to ignore is bound to get long. Basically it would be a better world around here if Neo was held accountable for what he says and does, just like everyone else is. Does anyone ever wonder why he's usually at the middle of these types of discussions? Wouldn't it piss you off to no end, if you were in any of our position and had to deal with it?

I want to be able to sort these things out on our own, but when you have a member who is essentially free from blame for all that he does, because he is not held accountable by other staff members for fear that maddog will do something to them if they do anyting to Neo, well it kind of makes it difficult to get anything sorted. He uses other members names as a deterant so as not to sustain any damage to himself.

...and will let you know if i ever need something to be done.

Spark is something that needs to get done, how does it affect me? Its a security risk as I had mentioned in a previous post.

And the neo issue, I do protect him and considering he started the place he deserves some protection specialy when most of you practically want him banned. If he wants to step down so be it, I dont think its a wise idea but if hes sick and tired of fighting with you all that is his choice. And he shouldnt have to step down because all of you dont like him.

and with regards to the admin CP thats why i have asked TWICE yet no one gives me a straight answer. And like i also mentioned before if this is the whole issue why everyone is fighting then ill just give CP access to mods and admins and everyone can just quit fighting.

Capt posted while i was writing my response so i have no idea what it says. And im late for opening night so I shall have to read it some other time. peace

Creating new user groups isn't necessary, considering it's not the Admin status that's really even at the heart of this here. I'm sure Nicole wants to be an Admin, but I think she probably would much rather, see a solution with the way Neo behaves. Consider what Ronin quoted Neo as saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, "The day Nicole becomes Admin, is the day I'm not an Admin anymore". This is the kind of thing we need to discuss him doing, once again it goes back to, is he untouchable? If we knew these things we could decide these matters with the freedom that it provides us with.

Agreed wholeheartedly. (Y)

In general had it been an open discussion, we would have everyone deciding on how things were going to work. Instead we have you three and Nicole stowing away to discuss.

Yes, and for this I'd like to apologize. I felt (and still feel) fucking grimey after that. It didn't feel like stowing away at first because I didn't expect the conversation to take the direction that it did. But I didn't stop it either, as I could have, so I take responsibility in my part of the conspiring. While not my intention, that's ultimately what I feel happened which isn't right or what I stand for. I'm truly sorry.

***

I agree with everything else Mike had to say, just wanted to make those two things clear

She's right about that. First of all I said lets get in a chatroom, and the whole reason behind is that I had found the contradiction on wat neo was stating. He was saying capt made avada admin while it was actually himself and i wanted to confront that in the presence of maddog....maddog said invite marduk in and so we did....and then one thing led to another and we kinda just got off in that direction of fixing things on our own (Capt it was brought up by nicole that you should be present as well).

anyways yes i'm sorry that little meeting went the way it did and i guess i could take a majority of the blame for it because I am the one that asked nicole to arrange the chatroom with maddog.

You know what, you can fault all of that to maddog for not being acertive with anything, don't you two even worry about apologizing for just being present while these two were making the decisions for us. As far as I am concerned there is nothing you could have said or done to change either of their minds. As far as I am concerned you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and I hold absolutely no ill will for that. You guys happened to make the perfect setting by wanting to discuss the situation, for us to actually shed some light on what the fuck is going on here, and all I have really wanted this whole time is to get everything out in the open. So don't even worry about it.

Maddog, you talk of security yet you don't even acknowledge that Neo is just as bad a security risk as Sparks open account would be. You do remember Isabella right, you do remember the amount of times he has let her back in with out telling us, you do remember that she doesn't like the majority of us. Are you telling me that's not a security risk? She was an Admin here for some time, and who knows what he would have given her access to if allowed to let her stay.

Your view on things is whacked out pretty hard if you are going to ignore that fact. I'm actually done attempting to explain what the problem is to you as you seem incapable of understanding a goddamn word I have said, and I have said it plenty of times so you had to have gotten it once if ever you were going to get it.

You ask once again about the Admin CP, you have got to be fucking kidding me. Did you read any of what anyone wrote, why the fuck are we even asking you if your just going to just reiterate something I have personally already answered. Here it is again, it's not about the fucking Admin CP. Is that clear enough?

It is now about Neo, and as far as I am concerned you are completely oblivous as to why we dislike him, though you have been told repeatedly the reasoning behind it. No I don't think he needs protection. Spark started this fucking place, not Neo, Spark, do you get that, Spark started this place, and he alone would be worthy of being protected from us by you. Then again Spark would never have done anything worthy of needing protection, which should tell you something.

Marduk you need to grow the fuck up, and maddog you need to open your fucking eyes, do you realize you have no fucking morals if you protect him as your doing. I doubt that means a damn thing to you but I just thought I should point that out. Yeah a lot of us want him banned, and if you could for two seconds go out of Marduk protection mode you would see that there are a hundred different damn good reason why we want that. I never even brought up the idea of banning him. Here I am talking about discussing things properly to get to the right solution, and all you hear is ban, ban, ban. Unlike you and Neo, I do have a sense of my morals, and what is the right thing to do. If someone fucks up they are held responsible accordingly, someone should not be shielded because you think they need it, as Nicole mentioned above, that's getting invloved, what you said just now you weren't doing.

It makes no sense to me how you can completely ignore what everyone is telling you and be completely blind to everything he has done to put himself in this position, it's fucking mind boggling that someone could be that fucking dense, I really thought Marduk was at the top of that ladder, but you have proved me wrong today man. Maybe he shouldn't have to step down because we all don't like him, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have to obey the fucking rules.

So to sum it up, is Neo protected from you by you? Let's not forget that I was here from the beginning too regardless of what you wan't to believe, albeit 2 days after Marduk, yet we technically saw this forum thing to fruition from the beginning. Could I partition you for protection too so that I can break every single moral rule we have here, and have no consequence? Is there a possibility of that happening? I didn't think so, seems kind of fucking stupid to me, but then again, I can see what's right and wrong, and either you can't or you simply choose not too, either way it makes me fucking sick.

Oh, and by the way, you may think a strategic exit, after this might be a good idea for me, but I assure you I'm not going anywhere. You're gonna hear from me everytime he makes a mistake, everytime someone complains to me that he's breaking the rules, everytime he smothers someone to the point of hating him, your gonna hear from me, and maybe, just maybe you'll start to realize what it's like to have to deal with him, maybe you'll open your eyes, and when you finally do, your gonna realize how much of an ass you look like right now. I could care less if you have had the time to read my previous post yet, because your answer to Nicole's post gives me everything I need to hear.

You know at least Neo doesn't know how to fix what he's doing wrong, but you, it's almost worse. But thanks for showing everyone in here your true colors. (Y)

Neo the longer u ignore these posts and just pretend they arent there the worse it looks for you

This is getting way deep. I just think we should keep focused on the fact that our primary goal is to create a enjoyable and productive experience for our members.

I think we need to finish this and get it out of the way before it simmers down and then comes up like this again in a few weeks or a few months.

Well, that only means one thing for several people.

That one thing would be Marduk accepting his actions, and not pushing them on someone else. Telling someone I did something when he did it, is ridiculous, but made even more so by the fact that he can't get into trouble, so what does he have to fear from telling the truth? That is why I am pissed. Him accepting his actions doesn't necessarily mean a ban, because as I have stated before, I have more moderation than that, as do most of you.

I couldn't agree more with the both of you. If this settles down, then I'll just have to bring it up again, as I said I would be prepared to do. I would love nothing more than to be done with this, the problem simply resolved, which from my view currently, wouldn't be all to difficult to accomplish.

As for creating an enjoyable experience, absolutely, which would be better implemented if we had a staff that wasn't at odds with each other. The only way to solve that is to open these two people's eyes, and make them acknowledge it, because I sure as shit am not going to forget who I am sitting here daily with and having to make decisions with or maybe I should say not making decisions with. I will not allow myself to be compromised so that these two can walk away unscathed being clearly in the wrong.

I think that we can still keep up a clean and enjoyable forum and continue with this, nothing has changed really except it's more out in the open now what everybody has been thinking for sometime.

If we asked each and every member here what they thought of the situation, firstly most of them would say they don't care. But if they actually responded, could you imagine whatq they would say. I can guarantee you the majority would be for Marduk to take responsibility for what he does, and for maddog allow him to deal with it himself, he's a grown man for fucks sake and he can't defend himself on a lowly internet forum. Speaks volumes my friends.

I can guarantee you the majority would be for Marduk to take responsibility for what he does, and for maddog allow him to deal with it himself, he's a grown man for fucks sake and he can't defend himself on a lowly internet forum. Speaks volumes my friends.

I think I am probably the one who is most forgiving or unbothered by Marduk's "antics" and I still would agree with that statement. Not so much as just applying to him, but I think that about everyone. It's pretty standard for every sort of relationship whether it be personal or business, people have to take responsibility for their actions. It would go a long way with keeping some sense of peace within the staff if ALL of us did this, Marduk.

Exactly.

I think I mentioned it before everyone would have to be accountable if they were in the same situation. I assume we would be, and there is the difference between us and them.

Everyone has agreed on what the course of action should be, maddog said let us sort these things out, yet he actively is not allowing us to do so. So, I am at a loss as to what to do next.

What is the point of discussing things to come to a fair decision, when Marduk has his own set of non-existent rules to go by?