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"When women make circles of friends expand, their reptilian
brains are satisfied because there is even more intimacy and good
energy to tap into. This feeds a woman's instinct for safety, harmony,
and balance. In times of drama or challenge, she has a much
greater network to tap into and has done so without sending her
energy and time in conflicting directions."
"So very many women, even my own sister, tell me that envy and
jealousy in women (as opposed to men), tend to be about not be
longing to the "in crowd," to a lack of harmony in the circle of
friends, or all of that adding up to a lack of security in a woman's
sense of being "normal" as judged by a group. My sister says, "If
one woman gets way more attention from men than another, it's
not pretty. Sometimes it's about a job, but usually it's men. Your
friends are a reflection on you. If your girlfriends are friends with
assholes, chances are there are similarities and you don't want to
be friends with those girls. Women need to feel they are
'normal.'"
"The solution, she says, is to surround herself with friends who
are real and humble, not arrogant. She says this makes it likely
that everyone will "find a guy who is their type rather than hogging
all the attention. It's about options. Also, when someone is on
a power kick, or tries dominating everything, it's not good. We
need the yin and yang, and balance—an attention hog throws
things off balance."
"
On Envy and Jealosy
"Jealousy is an angry, negative emotion directed at a wish for or
want of something specific we do not have. A jealous person may
be mature or immature, wise or foolish, and may act on her jealousy
or not. Regardless, jealousy informs us of what we do not
have but want. As we will soon see, there is a cure for jealousy in
using the energy in your anger to go after exactly what you want.
Envy is a related, but more global, challenge to friendship"
"For both men and women, envy can come in two forms: mere
emotional hatred based on a sense of lacking and passionate hatred
based on both emotional lack and the loss of gender-based
status or belonging. The former is mammalian-brained only. The
latter is charged with both the mammalian brain's emotion of hate
and the reptilian brain's instincts toward masculinity, femininity,
and survival.
Envy is one of the "seven deadly sins" but is unique among
them. Chaucer described envy as sadness at goodness or prosperity
in another person and happiness at their failure or downfall."
"Chaucer goes on to say that what
makes envy a cardinal sin is that while other sins (such as greed,
avarice, lust, or pride) have an "object of desire," envy has no positive
aim for the self. You might then say that envy is more than
just an emotion. It is both an emotion and an outright passion—an
immature, dysfunctional, instinct sounding an alarm that says, "If
someone else is happy, it threatens my very survival.""
"Envy is, then, the ultimate sin in that it deludes us with the
view that the world out there is a place of scarcity."
"envy is just a form of suffering. It is anger we direct
at a future (that we do not control) in which we suspect that others
will have more than us; therefore, if we carry with us a worldview
that we live in a place of scarcity, our future is predetermined to see
us with less, our needs unmet no matter what we do. We are doomed
to even less of our needs being fulfilled if others have more.
Envy is aggression directed at a view of the future in which you
imagine others having more than you: more happiness, more love,
and more success. It is also by definition a form of suffering (wishing
to control the uncontrollable) since we do not control the
future. Assertiveness is the cure.
"Chaucer was a bit off target in finding that the envious
have no desired object of envy. They do and it is invisible: the selfesteem
energy called well-being, taken at the expense of others—
through guilt trips, gossip, slander, and even crimes of hate."
Very interesting insight:
"Imagine circles upon circles of self-esteem energy, joined by the
architecture of good boundaries in the triangles they form—all with
you at the center. When you are all alone in a life without friends,
and therefore without love, you are psychologically very much like a
one-celled organism. You are technically alive but very fragile, easily
burst apart by toxins and trauma, and frustrated with your ability to
grow if there isn't immediate nourishment in the vicinity. But if you
look at a circle of friends as a single living being itself—whether
it contains men or women or both—it becomes like a multicelled
organism, a fully functioning living thing immune to the stresses of
a foul-weather environment and attacks from hostile forces, and
inside itself a wellspring of creativity, innovation, safety, belonging,
and potency."
On passivity:
"We don't realize
that we are letting our lives stagnate (the world gives us only its
leftovers when we are passive) or that we are depriving ourselves
of a chance to develop our conscience and intuition. We are denying
the only chances in life we have for growing wise, which will
make every subsequent decision we make so much more on target,
right, and beneficial to both our friends and ourselves."
"Writer Rannveig Traustadóttir says:
Women typically describe their friendships in terms of closeness
and emotional attachment. What characterizes friendships
between women is the willingness to share important
feelings, thoughts, experiences, and support. Women devote a
good deal of time and intensity of involvement to friends.
Friendships between women, more so than between men, are
broad and less likely to be segmented.
It makes sense, then, that while men often concentrate their
friendships in activities that inevitably relate to career aspirations,
women value and attend to friendship in ways that might sometimes
place them in a dilemma between being a good friend and a
good career woman."
Back to "Love and Limerance":
"Limerence figures in human tragedies, in the arts, and in historical events that affect the entire society, as well, inevitably, as in the progress of commercial developments.
The goal of the specific state called limerence has confused writers down through the ages. What does “return of feelings” really mean? Some have assumed that the limerent yearns to “possess” LO, but in what sense? A king might own his subject or slave; if he is also in love with her, he might give her her freedom so that she can express mutuality “freely.” The consummation of limerent fantasy, that thing the limerent fervently desires, is not mere copulation, not mere cohabitation, not even mere marriage, but something so elusive of precise definition it is sometimes deemed “spiritual.” We have also seen it called inherently impossible. If I want you to want me as I want you when what I want from you is that very wanting we end up, if not with a paradox, with a very elusive idea. Sartre’s image of a “mirror game” of “infinite reflections” is not so outlandish. No wonder limerence seems to observers a wish to be loved, rather than love itself.
The goal of limerence is not possession, but a kind of merging, a “oneness,” the ecstatic bliss of mutual reciprocation. In fully developed limerence, you feel additionally what is, in other contexts as well, called love—an extreme degree of feeling that you want LO to be safe, cared for, happy, and all those other positive and noble feelings that you might feel for your children, your parents, and your dearest friends."
"The effect of limerence may be almost anti-social.
"The Problem with Preemptive War: Soviet Mobilization Planning, 1938-1941 by Dr. Richard W. Harrison
In the spring of 1941, the Red Army high command sat poised to strike the German occupied Polish hinterland in a daring push to alter the course of the Second World War. Meanwhile, the German General Staff was likewise preparing for a blitzkrieg against the Russian western territories with the final prize of Moscow itself. The Russian commanders never carried out their plan to strike the Germans, however, and the German’s treacherous onslaught sprang forth first, resulting in the devastation of much of western Russia and contributing to the final defeat of the Nazi regime. The plan to invade Poland, though never carried out, offers fascinating insight into Soviet military thinking at the highest levels in response to a rapidly changing political-military situation.
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017, Dr. Richard W. Harrison gave a lecture at the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania based on his years of research on the Russian plan to invade Nazi-occupied Poland. He breaks down the Russian plan and tie his conclusions to todays’ preemptive warfare theory. The lecture opens with a brief review of previous Soviet mobilization plans as they developed in 1938 and throughout World War II. The early plans were defensive in nature and tasked the Red Army, due to its slower pace of mobilization, to absorb the initial enemy attack, followed by a counterstroke to pulverize the Nazi menace. The idea of a massive counteroffensive gradually evolved into the preemptive attack plan of 1941, carrying the high command’s desire to push through southeastern Poland, followed by an advance into Germany. The lecture examines the forces allotted for the preemptive attack, the route of their projected advance, and the interplay of personalities among the plan's authors and Stalin. Dr. Harrison concludes with a discussion of the strategy's utility and the lingering consequences of some of its component parts during the first weeks of the war."
"This longing for “someone” should be clearly distinguished from a realistic or practical desire to engage in a mating relationship for economic or procreational purposes, or even for the companionship of affectional bonding. Those inclinations seem largely to lack the involuntarily obsessional quality of the limerent state."
"Limerence is sustained because one of its aspects is the desire for limerence itself. This desire transcends the feelings directed toward a particular LO and persists even after preoccupation with that LO has diminished to a low level."
"Leaving aside such extreme, and possibly dubious, romances, my estimation of average limerent duration is approximately two years. It is based on both questionnaire and interview data. The duration of the experience covers the period from “the moment” of initiation of limerence until a feeling of neutrality is reached for a given LO. The extremes may be as brief as a few weeks or as long as a lifetime. Few full-blown limerences calm down in less than six months. When limerence is really brief, maximum intensity may not have been attained. The most frequent interval, as well as the average, is between approximately 18 months and three years. Lifetime limerences are rare, but they do occur. Some people continue to experience limerence at different times throughout their lives, so that there appears to be no age unaffected. If the state of readiness or longing were also included, the total number of cases would be greater."
"Being in love has three images which seem difficult to reconcile with each other. First, it is considered to be the source of the most intense human pleasure, even the most important thing in life—a transcendent state that has no parallel in human experience unless it be that of the religious mystic. Second, being in love is viewed as a symptom of inferiority and weakness, excessive dependency, and low self-esteem. Interestingly, these two images reflect the emotional reactions of the limerent person to LO’s behavior: a seemingly positive sign from LO and you walk on air in ecstatic bliss; an action interpreted as rejection, and you sink to the depths of misery."
"
wow, a definition for lovesickness:
"Feelings of lovesickness are as follows:
I am tense and uneasy, because I am trying hard to guess what you want me to be, so that you will love me. Once I psyche out what you find lovable, I will bend myself out of shape to conform to your idea of lovability for fear you may stop loving me. I dare not show you my real self, because I feel inadequate. . . .36"
"In a book titled Love and Addiction, Stanton Peele sets out criteria by which “love” can be distinguished from “addiction” (another disparaging term for the limerent reaction).40 These include holding a “secure belief’ in one’s own value, improving as the result of the relationship, keeping up interest in things and in people outside of the relationship, having common interests that transcend the love aspect of the relationship, and letting each other “grow” in an atmosphere free of jealousy and possessiveness."
"In the very social humanist and human potential movement ideology, which is largely a group movement, limerence’s greatest sin is the exclusivity which causes lovers to close their door to the rest of the world. It is possible to view this movement and its attitude toward love itself as one of society’s current means of attempting to control limerence.
maybe you are interested in these:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/239954.Brain_Sex
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/492157.Sex_and_Cognition
53 minutes ago, 17 Moments of Spring said:maybe you are interested in these:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/239954.Brain_Sex
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/492157.Sex_and_Cognition
ah thanks. I've never heard of those books. I've only started to get really into this stuff this past year.
Sex and Cognition seems particularly interesting to me!
Oh interesting, thanks
"The most consistent result of limerence is mating, not merely sexual interaction but commitment, the establishment of a shared domicile, a cozy nest built for the enjoyment of ecstasy, for reproduction, and, usually, for the rearing of children.15 Fear of rejection, an integral aspect of limerence, may have some adaptive value of its own. In other species, especially in birds, courtship tends to be something of a drawn-out process. In many species, it involves behavior that bears resemblence to the flirtations and game playing of limerents. Ethologists have guessed that the long period of courtship ensures a better ability of the individuals to be sure they have found a satisfactory partner. What we experience as fear of rejection may, in other words, be part of the process that ensures (or at least tends toward) making the process drag out a bit. The fear is the proximate cause. Since limerence goads one toward action, fantasy based in reality (as limerently perceived, but reality nevertheless) can be conceived as intricate strategy planning.
Limerence frees the young from too strong an attachment to the parents. It may not ensure in human beings the kind of permanent monogamy sometimes found in other species, but its average duration of about two years allows a female to become pregnant, bear a child, and begin the new family. The much longer duration of limerence-inspired relationships tends to keep both parents around and cooperating with each other in protecting and caring for the young, at least for a time.16
Not that limerence is the only mechanism in the human system to help the child on its way in life. There is for example an inborn response to characteristics of infants perceived as “cute,” characteristics such as large eyes low in a head somewhat out of proportion, at least out of adult proportion to the rest of the body, a set of characteristics shared by most mammalian young."
Mammologist Devra G. Kleiman of the National Zoological Park in Washington, D.C., has observed that the bush dog, like the human being, may develop emotional bonds which serve as a substitute for aggression and prevent adultery.18 She further believes that while human beings may not have begun as monogamous creatures, monogamy was essential to the growth of human intellectual power, since mental development required a longer period of childhood dependency, dependency extending beyond the time of weaning and requiring assistance from the father or other adults.
Many animals also form pair bonds, and in some species partners remain monogamous for life.
"When you become limerent about a particular person, there comes a point in the process at which the emotional gates close and you do not shift your feelings to another LO until your reaction to the first has subsided considerably. In the retrospective account of one interviewee, “I know that I would have fallen in love with any fairly decent-looking, unmarried man who showed interest in me. I was so ready, all I’d need was a look.” Crystallization fashions an image of “perfections” from LO’s actual attractive features, the process, as described earlier, being one of emphasis rather than complete invention. In the laboratory, it was found that prolonged exposure to the imprinting object or person was unnecessary. In fact, the attachment could be undermined by too much familiarity.23
An impressive case for a kind of negative imprinting and for the role of involuntary and unconscious (genetically programmed?) factors in limerence is provided by the findings reported by Yonina Talmon in an article on mate selection in Israeli kibbutzim published in 1973 in the American Sociological Review."
Despite parental preferences to the contrary, data on 2,769 marriages that took place in second-generation offspring of kibbutzim dwellers indicate that not one occurred between persons reared together uninterruptedly during the first five years. In other words, intimacy during early childhood seemed to have left an “imprint” that prevented limerence. This finding appears consistent with the idea that limerence is a genetically transmitted individual reaction rather than the result of a culture “saturated” with romantic love in its stories and songs.
The function of anti-incest imprinting is, of course, obvious; too close relatives tend to have inferior offspring when they mate. I think it is possible that the imprint functions in limerence more forcibly than in sexual attraction, at least at the human level. Recent observations of higher primates revealed disinclination toward mating on the part of mothers and male offspring."
There's an amazon sale on Kindle- Massive discounts
I bought:
-Soviet General Staff Study: Moscow 1941-1942, Southwestern Direction 1942-1943, Prelude to Berlin, Berlin Operation.
-Konvev's Golgotha: Operation Typhoon strikes SE Front
-Rikugun/Kangzhan series (Japanese and Chinese order of battle)
- Monty's Functional Doctrine
-Barbarossa Derailed vol. 3
-St. Vith Lion in the Way: 106.ID
-Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German war 1941-1943
-Demolishing the Myth (Kursk)
These books were originally priced in the hundreds- I just spend around $40
"In October 1943, the Organisationsabteilung reported that there were 370
tanks operational. A further 1,117 were in need of repair; this was more
than 75 percent of the total strength. The shadow of defeat began to shroud
the eastern front."
^^
Thanks for the books.
There's also a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". I skimmed through it a year ago- it was about Passive-aggressiveness in men and men becoming too 'feminine' (eg. raised by single mothers or a domineering woman). There's no rights of passage, no initiation on being a man. This leads to a lot of problems later in their lives. Whenever I see a Hipster I see one of these men.
i know the "nice guy" phenomenon. related is flattering of friendzoned guys and taking advantage of them.
and: "beta provider", "shit test".
5 hours ago, 17 Moments of Spring said:i know the "nice guy" phenomenon. related is flattering of friendzoned guys and taking advantage of them.
and: "beta provider", "shit test".
IIRC the book had something to do with that but it was much more expansive. It was written by a psychiatrist that treated a lot of men of this type.
It's a low self esteem class of men who give away their resources freely, is chronically passive-aggressive, obsessively external focused (obsessed with be politically correct, loved by everyone, status, etc.), demonstrates traditionally female personality traits, etc. These are also traits that make them unsuccessful in attracting women romantically and maintaining long term relationships. The obsession with how the world sees them causes them to be chronically dishonest to themselves and to others.
I personally think that there is a "nice guy" in most men- it's just in different degrees.
The course I took spoke of how much of two generations of men have now been raised in broken families due to the extremely high divorce rate.
My parents had one divorce each before they met each other.