Joe > Average

They have even stronger cold in Russia and Canada, (and other parts of the world) so... no need to feel like an idiot

Definitely. Limer and Sweet rus would tell us more about it :morning:

One of the most interresting examples is a player named Ronnie Lot in the 80s who was told he couldn't go back in because his finger was hanging off but could be saved, so he cut the finger off so he could go back in the game .

I think the AFL is easily accessible. I knew nothing about the game before I turned up in Australia: picked a team, bought the guernsey, and was shouting at the television in incandescent rage in about a month!!!

^I eagerly await that pm then! Yeah, I guess it's not much of a rivalry if the other person doesn't realise it!

I don't know really, personally I've always tried to get on with other members - but it would be naïve to think everybody liked me (and I know that isn't the case anyway ), and I've reached out to some members who've never bothered to respond. I'm a stickler for manners, I suppose, and the lack of them is probably what annoys me the most on here. There are plenty who have pissed me off otherwise too though...

Yeah, well I say you did what you can do so on to the next is the best mentality .

crying of laughter and it hurts A LOT

EmoUnicorn #1 Troll US/Euro Jordan so much!

POOKITO PUT IT DOWN THE SHIT IS NOT A TOY!

Lol, thanks . I'm still laughing at the How to Speak German video as a side note .

No doubt

I think the basics of AFL are pretty easy to understand, but there are still a lot of rules to come to terms with the whole of the game - and I think one of the troubles is that some of them are just way too objective and open to interpretation by the umpires, which can change dramatically from week to week. It can be a confusing and frustrating thing as a spectator.. probably moreso for a newcomer to the game though

I've heard similar comments over here regarding the helmets/padding thing, but you dimiss it as nonsense when you see how hard those guys actually barrel into each other. Kind of reminds me of that fact I heard about how boxers sustain significantly more injuries and fatalities these days than they did in the bare-knuckle days. I'd say the most common injury you see in AFL is probably hamstrings, followed by head clashes/concussion and ACL/PCL knee injuries. Leg breaks are sickening to watch too Do you see much animosity between players on the field? Do all-out brawls ever happen?

7 year career is pretty crazy though.. so most guys call it quits by their mid 20s? Or do they not start that young? Are 30+ guys unheard of?

Good point with the boxing thing. I did notice the leg breaking thing . There is a lot of animosity and fighting among players partially because of all the testosterone flying around and unlike basketball, the players still respect the old division rivalries. A running back is usually considered old by his late 20s to early 30s though there are some exceptions. Some quarterbacks play longer than usual and because at least two backup quarterbacks are necessary, some play the system a bit by being a third string for years on various teams . Revelations in sports medicine and treatments along with the new trend of rotating players from the bench more is however projected to increase career expectancy. The basics do seem easy, only I'm not adept enough yet with the penalties though a part of it is I need somewhere to see it on a regular basis instead of whenever ESPN 3 is feeling generous enough to show actual games instead of ex players and analysts arguing .

Your new sig made me double-take too Joe

It did for me too, since that's not what I intended :| .

Same here it seems so rare nowadays, that when you find one it´s a jewell

Just saw this reaction to Gisele's current faux pas - and thought of our discussion:

Unsurprisingly, the defensive players that Gisele Bündchen insulted after the Patriots' Super Bowl loss — "You have to catch the ball when you're supposed to catch the ball," she said, "My husband cannot fucking throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time! I can't believe they dropped the ball so many times" — are not pleased with her remarks. "You can't point fingers at anybody. Wes made amazing plays all season," said a guy who was apparently supposed to catch the fucking ball, referring apparently to another guy who was supposed to catch the fucking ball.

Dear God, I can´t stop laughing

LOL of course (which goes along with the previous theme of serious answers to funny things, even though she wasn't joking) some analysts were asking if it was the first game she had seen since hailmarrys have a less than 5% success rate. On the other hand I don't remember seeing her before, but she has a demanding career of her own obviously.

so lovely

so to answer this riddle...

6, No our first kiss was actually in an elevator and only because he wanted me to shut up I think it was Irene who called him fruit lover first (I might be wrong, but it was a BZ member for sure) because we started dating when he had a stall with fruit and vegetables and I helped him out there a lot so - fruit lover she also asked me if he loves fruit and if that´s the reason he has that stall

5,4, and 3 are for me too?

Well, that explains it . I think that was the only one for you. I don't really remember who the others were for actually .

^Actually this happened in AFL too! donbot will no doubt know the great Daniel Chick (he went on to play for donbot's Eagles); he elected to have a finger amputated so he could continue playing for Hawthorne in 2002ish!

I think the AFL is easily accessible. I knew nothing about the game before I turned up in Australia: picked a team, bought the guernsey, and was shouting at the television in incandescent rage in about a month!!!

I think I had heard about that actually, only the other example's heroics would have been for naught at that time since they wouldn't have let him back in at that time. That's the irony of sports though. Some would say ten finders for the rest of your career might serve you better than going back in for today, but on the other hand who knows how long the rest of your career is? If its an important game and the balance is shifted by everyone else saying, "snap, that dude cut his finger off, we really need to haul arse now," then I can't deny the merit in it . One thing I do need is a go too team to get me out of casual viewership. Well, if there were maybe someone online that showed it more often than ESPN 3 that would help too . That's something I need with soccer too, at least one home team and one 'abroad' team is what I'm looking for ideally. I just haven't decided what that abroad team is yet.

^I eagerly await that pm then! Yeah, I guess it's not much of a rivalry if the other person doesn't realise it!

I don't know really, personally I've always tried to get on with other members - but it would be naïve to think everybody liked me (and I know that isn't the case anyway ), and I've reached out to some members who've never bothered to respond. I'm a stickler for manners, I suppose, and the lack of them is probably what annoys me the most on here. There are plenty who have pissed me off otherwise too though...

Yeah, well I say you did what you can do so on to the next is the best mentality .

crying of laughter and it hurts A LOT

EmoUnicorn #1 Troll US/Euro Jordan so much!

POOKITO PUT IT DOWN THE SHIT IS NOT A TOY!

Lol, thanks . I'm still laughing at the How to Speak German video as a side note .

No doubt

I think the basics of AFL are pretty easy to understand, but there are still a lot of rules to come to terms with the whole of the game - and I think one of the troubles is that some of them are just way too objective and open to interpretation by the umpires, which can change dramatically from week to week. It can be a confusing and frustrating thing as a spectator.. probably moreso for a newcomer to the game though

I've heard similar comments over here regarding the helmets/padding thing, but you dimiss it as nonsense when you see how hard those guys actually barrel into each other. Kind of reminds me of that fact I heard about how boxers sustain significantly more injuries and fatalities these days than they did in the bare-knuckle days. I'd say the most common injury you see in AFL is probably hamstrings, followed by head clashes/concussion and ACL/PCL knee injuries. Leg breaks are sickening to watch too Do you see much animosity between players on the field? Do all-out brawls ever happen?

7 year career is pretty crazy though.. so most guys call it quits by their mid 20s? Or do they not start that young? Are 30+ guys unheard of?

Good point with the boxing thing

*edit* the rest of my response disappeared and my emoticons don't work . This must be that black hole Baron was talking about .

As I had said before it disappeared, I had noticed the broken legs . There are a lot of fights I guess by default of the testosterone flying around along with the fact that unlike basketball, the players still respect the old division rivalries. A running back in his late twenties is traditionally considered old and a non kicker or punter and aside from the kickers and punters, anyone around the mid thirties is talked about like they're a fossion in general. Quarterbacks probably play the longest next to punters and kickers. Due to advancements in sports medicine, treatments ect. along with the modern trend of incorporating more backups into the rotation, that average is projected to go up considerably. At least a ten year player today doesn't look nearly as beat down as one from the past. The AFL rules seem clear cut, its just the penalties I'm working on even though I'd likely be further along if ESPN 3 would show such things more regularly rather than ex players and analysts arguing .

Best Translation for the vid

Dog: WUT?! HUH WUT?! WUCHOO WANT BITCH?? WUCHOO WANT???

Cat: Ah, fuck this.

Dog: THAS RIGHT! LEAVE BITCH!!! WHERE YOU GOIN?? WHERE YU GOIN BITCH?? little pussy.

Cat: What. did. you. say.

Dog: WHY YU COMIN BACK?? WANT A PIECE OF THIS?? WUT HUH Wut?? wut? wut? shitshitshitshitshitshit FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

LOL that cats actually bigger . There's a video with a cat chasing a black bear up a tree too I think. It seems the alpha leaders can come in strange places in the animal world in general. I've seen everything from parrots putting penchers in check to cats being the alpha male in a house with pit bulls and penchers and such.

They have even stronger cold in Russia and Canada, (and other parts of the world) so... no need to feel like an idiot

Definitely. Limer and Sweet rus would tell us more about it :morning:

^Good luck in waiting for Limey to read somebody else's thread and take the time to reply to a query!

Same here it seems so rare nowadays, that when you find one it´s a jewell

Just saw this reaction to Gisele's current faux pas - and thought of our discussion:

Unsurprisingly, the defensive players that Gisele Bündchen insulted after the Patriots' Super Bowl loss — "You have to catch the ball when you're supposed to catch the ball," she said, "My husband cannot fucking throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time! I can't believe they dropped the ball so many times" — are not pleased with her remarks. "You can't point fingers at anybody. Wes made amazing plays all season," said a guy who was apparently supposed to catch the fucking ball, referring apparently to another guy who was supposed to catch the fucking ball.

Dear God, I can´t stop laughing

LOL of course (which goes along with the previous theme of serious answers to funny things, even though she wasn't joking) some analysts were asking if it was the first game she had seen since hailmarrys have a less than 5% success rate. On the other hand I don't remember seeing her before, but she has a demanding career of her own obviously.

I know that she visits as much Tom´s games as she can, so this wasn´t her first one - but hell, you should have seen me when Slovak hockey team was playing for gold in the world cup and we lost - of course it was great that we were silver, but in that moment we lost, I was a pure evil, shouting and raving about those idiots (all of them) and ... well, if my fl was in the team I´d take a chainsaw and... I guess they would imprison me for the rest of my life

so lovely

so to answer this riddle...

6, No our first kiss was actually in an elevator and only because he wanted me to shut up I think it was Irene who called him fruit lover first (I might be wrong, but it was a BZ member for sure) because we started dating when he had a stall with fruit and vegetables and I helped him out there a lot so - fruit lover she also asked me if he loves fruit and if that´s the reason he has that stall

5,4, and 3 are for me too?

Well, that explains it . I think that was the only one for you. I don't really remember who the others were for actually .

well then if you have any more questions... I´m here

Guys, what do you think about this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/mo-teen-gets-life-po...-141938731.html

Mo. teen gets life with possible parole in killing

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A Missouri teenager who had described the slaying of a young neighbor girl as an "ahmazing" thrill made an emotional apology Wednesday to the girl's family and was sentenced to a potential lifetime in prison.

Moments before her sentence was imposed, 18-year-old Alyssa Bustamante rose from her chair — with shackles linking her ankles and holding her hands to her waist — and turned to face the family of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, whom she confessed to killing in October 2009.

"I really am extremely, very sorry for everything. I know words," she said, pausing to take a deep breath and struggling to compose herself, "can never be enough, and they can never adequately describe how horribly I feel for all of this."

She later added: "If I could give my life to get her back I would. I'm sorry."

Elizabeth's mother, Patty Preiss, who on the first day of Bustamante's sentencing hearing called her an "evil monster" and declared "I hate her," sat silently, staring forward as Bustamante's finished her apology.

Cole County Circuit Judge Pat Joyce then sentenced Bustamante to the maximum possible sentence for second-degree murder — life in prison with the possibility of parole. She ordered the teenager to serve a consecutive 30-year term for armed criminal action, a charge resulting from her use of a knife to slit the throat and stab Elizabeth after she had strangled her into unconsciousness.

Elizabeth's family declined to comment about the sentencing, as did Bustamante's family.

There were no immediate indications that Bustamante planned to appeal the sentence.

Bustamante originally had been charged with first-degree murder but pleaded guilty last month to the lesser charges to avoid a trial and the possibility of spending her life in an adult prison with no chance of release.

Bustamante was 15 years old at the time of Elizabeth's murder in the small town of St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City. Evidence presented during her hearing revealed that Bustamante had dug a shallow grave in the woods several days in advance, then used her younger sister to lure Elizabeth out of her home with an invitation to play. Bustamante, who had hidden a knife in a backpack, said she had a surprise for Elizabeth in the forest. The surprise turned out to be her demise.

During her two-day sentencing hearing, prosecutors referred repeatedly to an entry Bustamante wrote in her journal on Oct. 21, 2009 — the night of Elizabeth's death — in which she admitted to having just killed someone.

"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead," Bustamante wrote in her diary, which was read in court by a handwriting expert. "I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

Bustamante then left for a youth dance at a Mormon church her family attended while hundreds of volunteers began a two-day hunt for the dead girl. Although she initially lied to authorities about Elizabeth's whereabouts, Bustamante eventually confessed to police and led them to Elizabeth's leaf-covered shallow grave.

Defenses attorneys had argued for leniency after presenting evidence from family members and mental health experts about Bustamante's troubled childhood. Bustamante was born to teenage, drug-abusing parents; her father was imprisoned and her mother abandoned her, leaving her in the legal custody of her grandmother.

After a suicide attempt on Labor Day 2007 as she was starting eighth grade, Bustamante was prescribed the antidepressant Prozac. Her dosage had been increased just two weeks before Elizabeth's death. A defense psychiatrist testified that the medication could have made Bustamante moodier and more violent and contributed to the murder — a theory rejected by a different psychiatrist testifying for prosecutors.

Charlie Moreland, one of Bustamante's attorneys, described the sentence imposed Wednesday as "a harsh punishment."

"This was a child who had been spiraling out of control, but has treatable conditions," Moreland said.

Under Missouri guidelines, Bustamante would have to serve 35 years and 5 months in prison before she is eligible for parole, said Department of Corrections spokesman Chris Cline. It's also possible that the more than two years Bustamante spent in jail while awaiting her sentencing could be counted toward that time.

After spending several weeks at a diagnostic prison, Bustamante could be placed in either one of Missouri's two female prisons or sent out of state. Cline said department officials also would evaluate whether Bustamante should be kept separate from other adult woman inmates.

?

One of the most interresting examples is a player named Ronnie Lot in the 80s who was told he couldn't go back in because his finger was hanging off but could be saved, so he cut the finger off so he could go back in the game .

^Actually this happened in AFL too! donbot will no doubt know the great Daniel Chick (he went on to play for donbot's Eagles); he elected to have a finger amputated so he could continue playing for Hawthorne in 2002ish!

Ah yeah, good old Chicky. Hero of the '06 grand final

His hardness is missed.. he was old school

Good point with the boxing thing. I did notice the leg breaking thing . There is a lot of animosity and fighting among players partially because of all the testosterone flying around and unlike basketball, the players still respect the old division rivalries. A running back is usually considered old by his late 20s to early 30s though there are some exceptions. Some quarterbacks play longer than usual and because at least two backup quarterbacks are necessary, some play the system a bit by being a third string for years on various teams . Revelations in sports medicine and treatments along with the new trend of rotating players from the bench more is however projected to increase career expectancy. The basics do seem easy, only I'm not adept enough yet with the penalties though a part of it is I need somewhere to see it on a regular basis instead of whenever ESPN 3 is feeling generous enough to show actual games instead of ex players and analysts arguing .

What about the other end of the spectrum though? Are they starting at 17-18, or not til their 20s?

Speaking of the fights though, I'm not sure if you ever happened across this footage, but it cause quite a stir at the time.

That was my guy that got decked

It's rather funny though, how he immediately puts on his innocent "what did I do?" face after it. Perhaps even more funny how poor Hunter runs into a brick wall trying to defend his teammate's honour before sheepishly running away again

Anyway, that guy retired last year and is now actually pursuing a boxing career

I know that she visits as much Tom´s games as she can, so this wasn´t her first one - but hell, you should have seen me when Slovak hockey team was playing for gold in the world cup and we lost - of course it was great that we were silver, but in that moment we lost, I was a pure evil, shouting and raving about those idiots (all of them) and ... well, if my fl was in the team I´d take a chainsaw and... I guess they would imprison me for the rest of my life

Yeah, sports do stir a lot of emotion regardless of the logic. When you get to the world stage like that its really crazy of course. In your case, I know it would have been even greater if he was in it and in Gisele's case emotion overrode the fact that Brady threw the only interception in a close game .

well then if you have any more questions... I´m here

I'll keep that in mind . Would you mind if I took a pass on the prison case thing ? The prison system is a sore subject for me and I find it hard to smoothly transiton from awful news, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring you either. As to questions you can take a stab at the fart one anyway if you want of course .

Ah yeah, good old Chicky. Hero of the '06 grand final

His hardness is missed.. he was old school

That seems to be a common theme in sports. On one end, people like to say the "modern" players are more athletic whereas the older guys were tougher and sacrificed more even despite making less money. Of course, both ideas make me wonder if the old guys were younger, would various environmental factors as well as modern resources make them more athletic and thus be more culturized to lose some of the grit that they were known for. Either way, its all about making your mark when it matters most and it seems that's what he did.

What about the other end of the spectrum though? Are they starting at 17-18, or not til their 20s?

The average player starts at 21 or 22 years old. If you're older than that and want to try out, you can try out for a team although its pretty difficult since you have the almost drafted guys, free agants, European league, Arena League and Canadian league guys to beat out.

Speaking of the fights though, I'm not sure if you ever happened across this footage, but it cause quite a stir at the time.

That was my guy that got decked

It's rather funny though, how he immediately puts on his innocent "what did I do?" face after it. Perhaps even more funny how poor Hunter runs into a brick wall trying to defend his teammate's honour before sheepishly running away again

Anyway, that guy retired last year and is now actually pursuing a boxing career

LOL Did he retire because he was losing a step or did that make him realize boxing was his dream all along ? That would probably make a decent TV movie in any case and it is pretty funny funny stuff . That reminds me of an NFL player from back in the 80s named Hershel Walker who's a friend of Donald Trump I think and has now been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder and is now over forty having success in MMA . As to the fight though, I guess its inevitable when you combine the natural emotions involved in sports with a physical game on top of that.

There's one thing I withheld about the Gisele story and that's that there are two sides of reactions. On one side, there's those like me who always find a model cursing funny and it seems a lot of people I talked to said they were disappointed about her looks, either expected more or that she looked like a man. I don't bother to defend models to people not familiar with them but what I find interresting about that though, is to think about the fact that there seems to be a much lower standard for famous men. From watching AI, I see women calling Steven Tyler who (though I like him) looks like a lepricon in pimp and or disco clothes "hot". That's not to meniton guys like Clooney who even though to me is much handsomer is still a big draw for women whereas men wouldn't flock to a movie to see his female equivalent. Maybe that's just one of the many differences of the sexes like women aren't as interrested in men kissing and men aren't as interrested in celeb couples.

That seems to be a common theme in sports. On one end, people like to say the "modern" players are more athletic whereas the older guys were tougher and sacrificed more even despite making less money. Of course, both ideas make me wonder if the old guys were younger, would various environmental factors as well as modern resources make them more athletic and thus be more culturized to lose some of the grit that they were known for. Either way, its all about making your mark when it matters most and it seems that's what he did.

Yeah, for sure. Seems to be a dying breed, but you still get the odd guy like that. What they may lack in skills and ability, they makes up for with effort and grit. Things like that can really spur a team on and inspire passion in the fans.

The average player starts at 21 or 22 years old. If you're older than that and want to try out, you can try out for a team although its pretty difficult since you have the almost drafted guys, free agants, European league, Arena League and Canadian league guys to beat out.

Seems the top end of players is about the same for our two games, but they start earlier in AFL. Players don't generally peak til the 22-26 age range, but they usually start out playing senior games as 17/18 year olds. It's quite interesting to follow the progression of these younger players, both in terms of how they pick up the game to how they develop physically. Some of them are skinny as hell when they start out

LOL Did he retire because he was losing a step or did that make him realize boxing was his dream all along ? That would probably make a decent TV movie in any case and it is pretty funny funny stuff . That reminds me of an NFL player from back in the 80s named Hershel Walker who's a friend of Donald Trump I think and has now been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder and is now over forty having success in MMA . As to the fight though, I guess its inevitable when you combine the natural emotions involved in sports with a physical game on top of that.

Well he's 34/35 now, so he's well and truly past it. Most guys give it up around the 30 mark, but some push on for a few years. He often played on the edge, and liked the throw his weight around a bit.. and being that as it was, he was the center of more than a few on-field 'incidents' (the one I posted was the worst of them). He ended up having to leave his club mid-season after their disciplinary efforts failed The next year another team picked him up though, and he played out the last couple of years of his career there. Despite his rather thuggish reputation though, he was still one of the great forwards of his generation. Apparently he's always been a bit of a boxing enthusiast, and always intended to pick it up post-football (or indeed during <_<).. who knows how he's going to fare though.

LOL Did he retire because he was losing a step or did that make him realize boxing was his dream all along ? That would probably make a decent TV movie in any case and it is pretty funny funny stuff . That reminds me of an NFL player from back in the 80s named Hershel Walker who's a friend of Donald Trump I think and has now been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder and is now over forty having success in MMA . As to the fight though, I guess its inevitable when you combine the natural emotions involved in sports with a physical game on top of that.

Well he's 34/35 now, so he's well and truly past it. Most guys give it up around the 30 mark, but some push on for a few years. He often played on the edge, and liked the throw his weight around a bit.. and being that as it was, he was the center of more than a few on-field 'incidents' (the one I posted was the worst of them). He ended up having to leave his club mid-season after their disciplinary efforts failed The next year another team picked him up though, and he played out the last couple of years of his career there. Despite his rather thuggish reputation though, he was still one of the great forwards of his generation. Apparently he's always been a bit of a boxing enthusiast, and always intended to pick it up post-football (or indeed during <_<).. who knows how he's going to fare though.

He was one of those players (like Chick too) who was incredibly annoying - if he wasn't on your team...

Favorite Model Haters

I find most pretty annoying and others are funny. These are my favorite ones.

10. vanessaaa (Kate Upton)

9. COP11 (Adriana Lima) - I don't think she realizes that she's said her name more than anyone else in her thread . Either way, there are many Lima haters but she's my favorite.

8. sagitario (Gisele Bunchen)

7. Michellabella (Lily Cole)

6. Nemeside (Marisa Miller)

5. mbinebri (Doutzen Kroes)

4. Talisa (Candice Swanepoel)

3. Michael* (Cheryl Cole) - not a model, but I guess she's a part time commercial model. Either way, tis always funny .

2. AnaBBarrosFan (Barbara Palvin)

1. PinkCouture (Gemma, Vlada, Sasha who she refers to as the "Alien Trolls")

It's an honour to be on the list Joe! I don't think I'm a hater by nature, it's just that Cheryl's voice carries a certain involuntary physical cringe factor for me.

Yeah, sports do stir a lot of emotion regardless of the logic. When you get to the world stage like that its really crazy of course. In your case, I know it would have been even greater if he was in it and in Gisele's case emotion overrode the fact that Brady threw the only interception in a close game .

What does mean "Brady threw the only interception in a close game" Joe??

I'll keep that in mind . Would you mind if I took a pass on the prison case thing ? The prison system is a sore subject for me and I find it hard to smoothly transiton from awful news, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring you either. As to questions you can take a stab at the fart one anyway if you want of course .

It´s ok, it´s an awful thing anyway, really... I was just so shocked that I needed to share it with somebody!!

^I dare say there'd be a long line of people waiting to take a slug at him though! :lullaby:

He was one of those players (like Chick too) who was incredibly annoying - if he wasn't on your team...

Indeed

In fact, it was oh-so-gratifying to watch him have a shocking day at the office during that that epic 2006 grand final. I dunno if you were ever familiar with Roy & HG, but they used to do radio commentary on the grand finals every year - it was always good fun to have that on with the TV sound down. They ripped the piss out of him that year

There's one thing I withheld about the Gisele story and that's that there are two sides of reactions. On one side, there's those like me who always find a model cursing funny and it seems a lot of people I talked to said they were disappointed about her looks, either expected more or that she looked like a man. I don't bother to defend models to people not familiar with them but what I find interresting about that though, is to think about the fact that there seems to be a much lower standard for famous men. From watching AI, I see women calling Steven Tyler who (though I like him) looks like a lepricon in pimp and or disco clothes "hot". That's not to meniton guys like Clooney who even though to me is much handsomer is still a big draw for women whereas men wouldn't flock to a movie to see his female equivalent. Maybe that's just one of the many differences of the sexes like women aren't as interrested in men kissing and men aren't as interrested in celeb couples.

You know Joe, as a side note, ugly musicians, or ugly actors, or ugly businessmen... have money. And money, in many women´s eyes can make you look like Brad Pitt. Imagine Steven Tyler on a street or working as a waiter - how many women would call him "hot"? How many would try to meet him or date him? No matter how great he would sing to them

Fame and money can do nasty things - or rather, people can be a nasty creatues when it goes to fame and money

Adele with pink hair? what do you think, Joe?